NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

All of these statements by DU, and none on record for Sandie. Nobody in her corner at all,

Wonderful statement. And she's donating the Crowdfunded money to charity too.
Respect!

Very much looking forward to NC's cross examination of this witness!

Entitled hate incident? ED - yes

Tears in my eyes. What a woman.

Sex Matters is a charity now, just saying :-)

summary of incident and saying to let DU know if any thing else needed

JR - is this the doc attached? Entitled hate incident?

ED - yes

JR - you mentioned a template, is this the template?

ED - yes

JR - that was the Teams meeting on 18 Jan

ED - it's an IX planning doc, it an aid

its an aid to planning the IX

JR - who decides on witnesses

ED - initially it would be me but others would emerge as it went on

JR - which witnesses did you choose?

ED - DU, SP, LC

JR - why LC

ED - LC was the first person involved on 30 Dec

Bringing a chaise longue in for proper swooning effect probably brought about too many logistics issues.

I don't know about anyone else, but one of the things I would welcome in a nurseis sternness.

Who wants someone who's going burst into tears and has to be helped to the car because someone questioned their ideology!!

Stern nurses get the bloody job done

Man looking stern - sexy
Woman looking stern - mean

But fuck whether a nurse of 30 years service feels welcome, eh?

She can just be forced to strip in front of a man.

Not to mention female patients having their beliefs and consent overridden.

Sandie goes high and reinforces what we've already seen, that she's a sound woman being supported and advised by sound people.

JR - it says incidents in CR, what does that mean

ED - I needed to hear both sides

JR - what does incidents of avoidance mean

ED - when SP would leave the room if DU came in

JR - now an email from you to DU what does it say

ED - I said that it was clear that there had been a

Much as I don't want anyone to give Trump money, or deny a charity if it... I kind of wish Sandie would buy herself some of those blingy gold Trump trainers and wear them to work after she's been vindicated.

It does look like ED has done what normal people do, and has obeyed the instructions not to look at prior witness testimony. She's being taken very thoroughly and gently through this by JR. I wonder if she's been told what to expect when NC gets going?

JR - it says incidents in CR, what does that mean ED - I needed to hear both sides JR - what does incidents of avoidance mean ED - when SP would leave the room if DU came in

an incident, very upsetting but that we shouldn't talk about it.

JR - moving on, decision to extend suspension in February, why only 4 weeks in beginning

ED - I was hopeful the IX would be finished and HR had the idea that SP could come back in another area, clearly I was

She'd have been prettier if she smiled!!

100% AGREE

hoping that we could resolve the situation quickly.

JR - now AS, who is that HR

ED - no, she's our service manager, a manager

JR - what are you telling her there

ED - that suspension was expiring, that I had made a referral to occup health, to see what support we could offer

PP upthread has said didn't JR lie in court because she said the first investigation by ED wasn't an investigation.

She was not necessarily lying, she could have been misled by her clients. If they didn't disclose info to her and lied to her about ED's investigation being an investigation ( conveniently identifying as not one as soon as legal proceedings started) then all she could go on was what they said / their lies.

It seems JR may have been thrown under the bus. they're so arrogant in their totalitarian approach they really thought they could do this to a KC. However much of a TWAW believer JR is surely at some point she needs to protect her professional reputation here?

SHE got referred to Occy Health???!!!

She could "get help"??

FFS
FFS!

- what does incidents of avoidance mean ED - when SP would leave the room if DU came in

So that was labelled a 'hate' incident? leaving the room ?

SP, they hadn't been in touch, I told them where we were in process, they said had a backlog, but gave her an appointment, the letter was informing AS that we needed to continue the suspension because we had not found a solution, and we needed to get occ health moving.