NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

@JasmineAllen I'm more concerned she thought it possible a hair style could change your DNA. She's either not fit to practice or lying under oath.

I agree. This level of ideological capture or fear of her employer is terrifying.

Hopping threads again.

NebulousHog · Today 09:44
I realise the separation between BMA and GMC - just with me, as I said, it would be unlikely to get support through the channels over the office closure period.

The vast majority of advice in NHS staff disputes gets nowhere near union head office. It's dealt with by branch reps. They will be working as usual over Xmas, and there's probably a dedicated stewards' email that will be picked up by whoever's around.

Well this explains a lot.

I had anaemia but apparently now I don't (just above) but still massively tired, feel like shit, breaking fingernails, mouth ulcers etc My levels have gone up a bit but I don't feel hugely better. But now I'm dismissed because of the threshold.

ED - I agreed I would speak with SP because we only had one side of the story, and we needed to plan how to go forward.

NC - did you plan to speak with SP

ED - clarifies, that email was sent on the 30th and I wasn't aware on that point that it was SP, there were no names in

it other than DU. I wasn't available and didn't know that it was SP until 31st when i was back in the office.

NC - so if KS thinks that you will be speaking with SP to tell her that her actions are unacceptable she's gotten ahead of herself hasnt' she

ED - she's only got one

Very interesting given ED's current answers to NC's questions re: accusation that SP was abandoning patients left right and centre if Dr Upton entered the room. She seems remarkably unbothered.

Yes, but @Jimmyneutronsforehead Upton kindly informed us all that 5 year olds may not be right, remember Upton is a trained doctor and can't tell the difference

got one side of the events.

NC - so you need to speak with SP to get her side of the events.

ED - yes.

NC - another email from KS on 30 Dec, she's writing to you directly, thanking you for your support, and had a long talk with DU and DU knows that we condemn SPs actions.

Hey hes got a doctors costume and a plastic carry case with various magazine set doctors toys stuffed inside. He could just identify as a doctor

She's lying. I am midway through a nursing degree and we covered this stuff very early in my first year. I also did an Access to HE course before going to uni and we covered it there too in my human biology module

DU knows that we condemn SPs actions before they've even checked what actions those were?

ED - I think she's responding to my email when I said it was totally unacceptable, I didn't know it was SP.

NC - did you get back to KS and question the 'condemn SPs actions'

ED - no I didn't read that email until 31 December and I had already spoken to Louise, and knew it was

In the words of my good friend and neighbour, Scooby-doo. "Ruh-roh".

EDs timelines aren't adding up.

another email from KS on 30 Dec, she's writing to you directly, thanking you for your support, and had a long talk with DU and DU knows that we condemn SPs actions.

not that they had in anyway already decided the outcome of any investigation

Yeah I mean my DD5 once told me I had a sausage in my knee that was causing problems, which actually sounds fairly reasonable in comparison to some of the claptrap we've heard today

When the GP signs her off work, ED's sick note is going to read:
weak backbone

The extent of the lies and bias/ discriminatory attitudes of all the NHS staff involved - except Sandie- is mind boggling. How can an entire team of NHS staff be so lacking in personal integrity?

against SP. She (Louise) had been told about the 2 incidents, and she got advice to put SP on leave because those were serious allegations

NC - so it's early for KS to be condemning SPs actions.

ED - I can't speak for her but it is quite early, yes.

NC - is it fair to say that it is hard for you to speak that way to consultants

ED - I wouldn't say that. I'm quite a strong person, I have to work with senior consultants, we are quite a flat structure, and I can speak up.

NC - now KS email to DU, 'Louise condemns SP actions,

Exactly. WTAF.

CheekySnake · Today 12:43
I hope NC will ask what would have been done if SP had complained about the same behaviour from a member of staff who wasn't lying about being male.
Because that's the actual comparator.

This. I think that would be far more clear and easy to understand than the whole Pete thing.

Condemn is a strong verb to use unless you feel you are on strong ground.

and they will be meeting with SP to condemn her actions and tell her its unacceptable.

ED - I didn't see either of these emails until the 31st

NC - is that one of those times when you needed to have a difficult convo and make it clear to KS that it was early to be condemning

When my DS was a toddler he went through a phase of pointing at random men in public and calling them daddy. Even at that age he could tell the difference

Dr Searle is coming over as a nightmare.