NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

Best do away with all child safeguarding, prisons etc. too much hassle for the blokes.

What about the children’s red book? That was different for boys and girls wasn’t it? Has that changed too?

Me too, better tell the truth at first opportunity, obfuscating is only going to make it worse and I couldn't live with the anxiety levels.

I've just looked her up, she's KC with reams of experience.

If these are now her tactics then I think that has something to say about the merits of her side's case.

JR: We need a skilled expert to deal with sex q
Do we, though?

Tell him it's not that TWs in women's spaces are necessarily bad, they're just in the wrong place. You know, like weeds are just flowers, but in the wrong place..

We're on the school run 😬 and we live in the same house.

It's scary because he worked in safeguarding. His entire company provided health and social care systems for safeguarding

Maybe you can’t get a new job if you’re a GI heretic. Will it affect your references? Best not risk offending management and the Borg maybe.

i think NC will use the info in summing up that it seems nurses and doctors aren't able to tell which sex people are as completely and utterly absurd and untrue, meaning they are not credible witnesses.

That's just straw man arguments.

Ask him if there was a pit of snakes most of which were harmless, but a couple were deadly, how comfortable he'd be retrieving the priceless diamond!

I think she's saying, if SP had just let Upton have what he wanted and agreed to get changed somewhere else, there wouldn't have been all this trouble.

Let the bully win, in other words.

Oh god, they'd have a whole team, wouldn't they. Then they'd have to report their findings to a panel, who would then rule on whether or not to do a pregnancy test.

No, at least not in NI, but AFAIK ours is based on the English one with regional tweaks for NHS/HSC contact info etc

He sounds like an everyday misogynist.

Women are who men say they are......

Just catching up but in relation to this what I really REALLY don't understand about the TRA nonsense (and there's plenty to not understand) is why at one and the same time are they desperate to prove there is basically no difference between men and women and yet still want to transition and have everybody agree they are now the opposite sex. If we're all just humans, randomly whacking our bits together in the hopes that one of us (who knows which, can't believe I got unlucky both times!) will find a baby in our belly, why the desperate need to transition from one to the other? We're pretty much all the same. Even a cheek swab might show up a difference but only because we all have our own DNA anyway, the sex part is entirely irrelevant. We don't really need separate changing anyway, everybody prefers private changing, we're all just people, don't look, stop being so gross and childish. And yet, if you even dare to THINK of me as anything less than a female, womanly woman by sex and by gender, I will end you.

Assuming you're uncle is straight maybe ask him if he'd date such a 'woman' and if not why.

I suspect ED will be hung out to dry by NHS Fife. I think she's been like a rabbit in the headlights

Recent suggestion is the ranges shouldn't be different - just a failure to properly assess anaemia in women. Just saying.

Do you think the shenanigan's about ED's 'non investigation' has sharpened the J's responses.

No, it hasn't changed.

Nor have all the growth charts used in paediatrics

Nor have all the PEFR charts

Nor have the reference ranges for anaemia

Nor have Troponin ranges (ED wrong on that)

Nor have Creatinine values

Nor have tumour markers

And on and on

We're not potato heads with interchangeable bits. As they all well know.

Yes. She might be tempted to explain how this ideology can get such an insidious hold on otherwise quite reasonable and intelligent people. That they're too frightened to acknowledge there are two sexes, and that it is stamped on every cell of your body.

That a senior nurse has been so indoctrinated she thinks the only difference between female and male patients is the possibility of pregnancy

1st Half of this afternoons TT Tweets

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1890031571333415347.html

These people must know they're tying themselves in ludicrous knots and making themselves look completely daft. The pressure on them to do this is that if they don't they'll be labelled a "bigot" (by a movement with no basis in reality) and could face the same unfair disciplinary persecution as SP - but I still wonder if someone will reach a point where they just lose it and yell "Oh FFS ALRIGHT of course he's a man!" (followed by special forces storming in and surrounding them as sirens go off and DU vanishes in a puff of smoke)

Shite.

I've had my height and weight taken every single time I've had a pre-op in Fife. She's lying.

Except avoidance was also interpreted as harassment.