NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

ED - I would have thought she would have been made aware.

NC - 26th Dec Tuesday, you're in?

ED - on duty, lists other dates she was on duty

NC - on 26th your content to pick up incident 31st or some later time

ED - would need more info

NC - not in on the 3rd?

ED - no

My rabbit could. Female feet were female rabbits to him. Male rabbits were male rabbits. I don’t know which was worse tbh.

It's becoming clearer that management forced ED between a rock and a hard place. The implied threat to her job and even her career must have been there just as it was done explicitly against SP.

NC - spoke to Jackie Hurkis on the 3rd?

ED - yes

NC - came in to speak to her?

ED - think i was working an extra day

J - take a 5 min break as we are heading to new document.

Sorry mistaken post

It's odd how if nobody knows how to tell what sex anyone is or why it would matter even in a medical setting, that they have a female CR at all. How did that happen one wonders.

Wish NC would ask if someone has a prostate are they male or female? As far as I know even supposed sex change surgery doesnt remove it.

Not sure we can discuss other's evidence...WTAF?

This is because if he was 13, and had been born female there is a chance he could have been pregnant - vital to know for x-rays due to safety of foetus.

There’s no point, we need a skilled expert to answer such a taxing question

Seems that way. I am amazed though that she's willing to lie in court; it's such a stupid thing to do. If it was me, I'd just tell the truth then get a new job!

Currently sat in the car discussing the case with my uncle who says if someone says they're a woman it's not a bad view to respect that.

Grrrrrrrrr. Men.

I think this lawyer is shocking TBF, does she have ET experience?

Because the alternative is to be (metaphorically) burnt at the stake later as a witch/be suspended/no more promotions etc.

Ask him what we should do if that person is wayne couzens.

'Might be a necessary fact, what is sex of R2'
Gosh, yes, this might be relevant!

I'm sorry you are related to a fool. My commiserations.

Maybe she's throwing everything and anything in the hope that some of it sticks!

And given this is on record, surely it affects her chances of getting a new job. I'd expect lots of questions around sex differences in any interview from now on....

He's very much of the mind "there are people who abuse the systems everywhere that doesn't make all of them bad"

Ask him, what if it’s a rapist?

what if it’s a 12 year old girl and a 50 year old bloke who suddenly decides he’s a woman and needs to come in the ladies with her.

No wonder the NHS is in such a state if they need to call in experts to determine the sex of a patient every time its relevant to diagnosis and treatment

Sarcasm

When she says she wouldn't have put herself in that position - she means the position of being in the changing room with a man.

So it was up to all the other women to exclude themselves or it was their fault.

I can't wait to see who their expert witness will be to determine DU's sex. A junior from Pink News who has read some blogs???

I think we could deffo get Dr Robert Winston now.

Or you know a cheek swap would suffice.

I would be slowly edging away 😶