NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

and asks for same sex care - how do you know what sex that is? How the hell do you provide it?

NC - by clothes, make up etc, it's not surprising they are upset by men in F CR;s

ED - your feelings are your feelings

NC - SP approached you a second time and told you of second time she saw DU, when SP was in trousers and bra?

ED - she came in august, then I spoke to her in oct

NC - and it has real world consequences IRL? ED - I suppose NC - do you agree a lot of people think that? ED - no idea NC - it's reasonable, people come in M or F and sometimes it matters? ED - depends on context NC - for those who think that and don't think sex is changed

Why is she so willing to make herself look stupid?

This is horrendous. She's making nurses out to be stupid and the judge clearly thinks that's ok because, nurses, y'know....

I'm a nurse. I can answer simple questions on biological differences in the 2 human sexes....

Similarly I have a sibling with severe respiratory disease. They are female. The reference ranges for them are completely different to male references ranges for things like spirometry and peak flow. Treatment decisions would be vastly different if they had their results but were male. This is nonsense!!!

To be fair to her, gender-prioritising beliefs require a large degree of bestupidance.

Becatse the alternative is being on the receiving end of what Sandie is going through?

or maybe she’s a true believer

Waves to nauticant: DD is going to be performing the flute part in Moldau

😥ED - your feelings are your feelings

She can't answer whether clothes change your DNA because she is a nurse?

Someone gets a positive pregnancy test.

Does it indicate a) pregnancy or b) a type of testicular cancer?

How would you tell just by looking at the person which was most likely?

@JasmineAllen 🤣🤣🤣

Best post of the day so far

Fear.

She's scared of him. So much so she's now lying in court.

ED - there was nothing I could use to exclude DU, I don't think there was any other conv

NC - you gave her feedback on your conv with IB?

ED - yes, no other conv

NC - yes that's the conv I mean, in october. You had contacted IB, found nothing to support you excluding DU

And when if you do, you're likely to be constructively dismissed.

Me too!

ED - there was nothing I could use to exclude DU.

Perfect!

I'm guessing the golf course eases the pain 🙄

You would be fine. She is obfuscating through her teeth.

This is absolutely farcical. What a complete joke. I can’t believe these people work in healthcare. The extent of the absolute brain rot of this ideology is astonishing.

ED - was told by IB that DU identified as a woman and had to be allowed to use F CR

NC - you say nothing to support exclusion, SP says you said you hadn't got anywhere. Were you aligned on this with SP

ED - I said effectively I couldn't help.

NC - you were hoping to stand up

It's a really good performance, the historical instruments really add character.

Honestly, I'm pissing myself now

Isla Bumba is a very young DEI person

I think NC (and possibly the J's question "so if we asked a couple of people they would probably have seen you") was pointing at the possibility that the socks/plaster room situation on 28th was potentially engineered or never happened, because by then DU would have had BMA recommendation to try to resolve informally, and would have realised the Fife Christmas Day Cavalry had never been despatched as a rescue party, and so it was suggested the 28th incident was intended to increase the case against SP.

Bit off-topic but there is a map of the emergency department in this pdf I found, if anyone can clean up the image to show where CR and plaster room are? Pdf of medical education exercise with map of fife emergency department