NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

What? Why does the NHS website ask your sex on the BMI calculator then?

Couldn't they just employ Pete the plumber and his mates?

How different is all the internal plumbing really?

Oh, I thought that was just gas.

Good god, please may I never end up in a Scottish hospital 🤦🏻‍♀️

Hmm I imagine a “skilled expert” isn’t going to be able to say anything other than U is of the male sex. He’s already admitted he hasn’t got a DSD

Yet another so called health professional who is a danger to patients due to there lack of understanding of basic fundamental medical facts

I'd say since scrubs are unisex then clothes in this instance shouldn't count

There is a legal right to accompaniment at a disciplinary hearing.

There isn't a legal right to be accompanied at a suspension meeting.

Here's the ACAS page on this as it keeps coming up on here:

https://www.acas.org.uk/suspension-during-an-investigation/the-process-for-suspending-someone

Jesus wept. They're so terrified of understanding there are two sexes, they're letting all their training fall out of their heads on purpose

At this rate I'll be emailing the gmc about ED too.

Ah, maybe that is connected to her decision to give it to charity - charity donations attract tax relief so would free her of that hassle.

It doesn't, any more.

It did 2 years ago, but it changed before last summer to just asking weight and height.

Haha, yes!

"Hypothetically, in the next year or so we may have someone employed here who is a TW - would you be ok changing with them (and ask to men and women)

Obviously they'd never know who she was referring to as his colleagues see him as female!

Ah ok, I think I’ll phone and ask my dr for a prostate blood test tomorrow.

ED - only one I can think of

NC - not blood cell count?

ED - no

J- says it's the only one she knows

NC - whether M or F is written in every cell of the body

ED - don't understand.

NC - if in doubt, rarely, but if in doubt you can do a simple cheek swab

ED - DNA swab?

NC - yes,

NC - it will tell you sex

ED - yes

NC - a cheek swab will tell you if body is m or F

ED - will give you DNA, individual to everyone

NC - will tell if M or F

ED - yes it's your unique identity

NC - those tests won't be changed by hair, make up, clothes

ED - I don't know, a nurse

NC - it will tell you sex ED - yes NC - a cheek swab will tell you if body is m or F ED - will give you DNA, individual to everyone NC - will tell if M or F ED - yes it's your unique identity NC - those tests won't be changed by hair, make up, clothes ED - I don't know, a nurse

Don't know...just a kind and silly nurse who wants to respect people

Yes I just checked myself and noticed that!

Which ones !!!!!!!!
FFS she's a nurse, she should know this stuff.

Ah yes but his are raspberry coloured.

I know "beclowning" is over-used but it is appropriate here. Ideological blindness and stating absurdities to show alignment.

Wtaf

30 seconds on google:

https://www.gloshospitals.nhs.uk/our-services/services-we-offer/pathology/haematology/haematology-reference-ranges/

Scotland, birthplace of The Enlightenment.

Fucking hell

J - she says she doesn't know you can ask Dr Searle,

NC - I will

J - she is a senior Dr. It's difficult for this witness to answer these qu, she's not got a Dr degree, not to downplay nurses quals but it's different.