NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

Yes, JR confusing 2 issues - WORIADS and legal definitions.

Bet finance do

So that's a couple of under sevens - I'll add my five-year-old in too, and we've got ourselves an Expert Panel

who did NC point at when she said: "ED - some men have long hair NC - if that man there grew his hair would it make him a woman?"

PLllllease let i t be the J

NC - it's right a GI doesn't impact treating them?

ED - no

NC - no impact on blood tests, whether they might be pregnant etc? GI is in their head

ED - indiv thoughts and feelings.

NC - what sex someone is matters for blood tests, normal ranges vary by sex.

ED - which ones

We need skilled experts to recognise sex.

Fuck me, the headlines tomorrow are gonna be brilliant.

This surely tell people exactly what they need to know. George Orwell wasn't quoted enough.

I'd love Naomi to say thank you for that ED, now how many fingers am I holding up

WHICH ONES?! OH MY DAYSSSSSS

NC - troponin levels, diff range for men/women to do with heart attack?

ED - it's the same for men and women, ascending or descending levels. Only test I can think of is pregnancy - beta hcg.

NC - normal range of red blood cells differs by sex?

ED - not my expertise

Nurse doesn't realise that sex impacts biology/blood test results etc

But clothes seem to. So what about when he's wearing scrubs?

Delighted that my dog is now a designated 'skilled expert' on biology - he can easily tell the difference between a man and a woman.

What she said.

That's going to be one for the ages, I can see it now.

Get over there! Terf Island needs YOU!

I was once conned into a meeting without a witness when I worked in a Scottish secondary school. I managed to handle it.

I never allowed myself to be put in that position again. Later - prior to a tribunal where the senior manager responsible found himself in trouble for bullying and other matters - the area union rep was aghast when he heard about the meeting. Apparently, if that had been in the tribunal evidence it would have been an open and shut case.

By then, I no longer had the paperwork, so it was never addressed in the tribunal. (I had been formally interviewed, but had blanked out that particular incident.)

raspberry scrubs please!

Yes!! A couple of days ago he said he was born male. This is all falling apart like the wobbly little house of cards it is!!

NHS Scotland just reported they can’t retain nurses and midwives. And can’t get people to come forward to be trained as midwives and nurses

no wonder when you have a whole hospital who don’t know what a man or a woman is

Get him in that court room pronto!

NC - even weight, healthy ranges are based on sex? ED - we don't weigh a lot NC - BMI? ED - height and weight NC - and sex ED - no just height and weight NC - are you saying pregnancy is the only thing that would differ between men and women?

NC - even weight, healthy ranges are based on sex?

ED - we don't weigh a lot

NC - BMI?

ED - height and weight

NC - and sex

ED - no just height and weight

NC - are you saying pregnancy is the only thing that would differ between men and women?

I'm really glad i don't live in Scotland with this level of medical stupidity from their HCPs. Sorry Scottish wims.

I say 'he', but he did have them cut off so.........

ED - only one I can think of NC - not blood cell count? ED - no J- says it's the only one she knows NC - whether M or F is written in every cell of the body ED - don't understand. NC - if in doubt, rarely, but if in doubt you can do a simple cheek swab ED - DNA swab? NC - yes,

ED - we don't weigh a lot

I though you would need the weight of the patient to determine how much anaesthetic they can safely use?