NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

Dammit, I wish we could watch this.

What is sex of R2! Oh my God!!

This is going well !

WHAT THE ACTUAL GODDAMN FUCK

Haha we need a skilled expert! Hilarious

NC - it's uncomfortable, it's hard to say, but because a man wears clothes, grows hair etc it doesn't make him a woman. It's a fact JR - object, false premise it's a fact. it's her belief. J - qu of case is facts and law. Might be a necessary fact, what is sex of R2

JR doesn't understad that the law is predicated on th existence of facts.

Skilled expert. Ffs

I'll ask my 5yo. He knows what male and female are.

Judge seems to be getting the issue.

Despite what DU believes his sex is male. He is legally as well as physically / factually male in absence of the GRC.

J - may help

NC - qu again. Asking you to agree, it is uncomfortable becuase it has been made difficult to say. Stages Growing hair doesn't make him a woman?

ED - some men have long hair

NC - if that man there grew his hair would it make him a woman?

ED - no

NC - if he shaved?

NC - it's uncomfortable, it's hard to say, but because a man wears clothes, grows hair etc it doesn't make him a woman. It's a fact JR - object, false premise it's a fact. it's her belief. J - qu of case is facts and law. Might be a necessary fact, what is sex of R2

Ah: so the judge seems to be indicating that the sex of Upton might be a necessary fact to be known.

The judge is clearly getting pissed off with the bs about Dr Upton not being male 😁

Vic Valentine's cross is tomorrow I think. I'm sure JR can extract all the wisdom necessary when that happens.

Honest to God, the fucking half wits 🤣

JR - we need a skilled expert to deal with sex qu J - so put that later. C's case is that R2 is male. It is a disputed qu, it's a mix of fact and law. That is being put against you, we are dealing with EQA. JR - how can this witness answer this? J - it is a permissible qu, it

We need a skilled expert to decipher the reality of Sex

Hmm, live peaking of ED about to occur?

Not qualified because not a TW, how does she know she's not a TW? Maybe because she knows her own sex?

they are Medical staff! They are a hospital!

I do too. The way NHS Fife regarded SP's safety, comfort and wellbeing as irrelevant and unimportant is infuriating. This same attitude we've seen over and over from so many organisations making women feel as if we're troublesome and a pain in the arse because we want the simple basic right to privacy and protection. NHS Fife employ thousands of women and deemed it perfectly acceptable to ignore their safety to protect the feelings of BU and any other trans males. It's even more infuriating when it's women that are actually putting BU ahead of their own female colleagues. I want to ask why?

I'm following this while enjoying Smetana's 'Má vlast' being played on historical instruments Radio 3.

Live peaking 😂

I can't keep, so.have jumped.into the thread at what looks.like a gripping moment!

Will return to that.

In the meantime, from previous thread: crowdfunding donations can attract income tax. Hope someone ensures SP takes proper advice on that - wouldn't want people's generosity to land her in trouble with HMRC.

ED - no

NC - wore make up?

ED - no

NC - womens clothes?

ED - unless he identified as a TW, no. I just have to be respectful of others beliefs as in code of conduct.

NC - at clothes you changed your answer. Do clothes make you a woman

J - may help NC - qu again. Asking you to agree, it is uncomfortable becuase it has been made difficult to say. Stages Growing hair doesn't make him a woman? ED - some men have long hair NC - if that man there grew his hair would it make him a woman? ED - no NC - if he shaved?

Does anyone in this hospital understand what the difference between female and male is?