NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #16

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks. However, it is going to overrun and there will be an adjournment with the hearing resuming, possibly, in July. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13
Thread 14: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272939-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-14
Thread 15: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5273119-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-15

The first time she didn't know - he walked in on her in a state of undress I think - am i right? So she literally could not have avoided that and yes NHS Fife put her in that situation.

not unreasonable she would be upset. But there are other changing facilities, I wouldn't have put myself in that situation

Nice bit of victim blaming there...what a fucking cow!

ED - not unreasonable she would be upset. But there are other changing facilities, I wouldn't have put myself in that situation

Wtf

Why can't DU those other CR

But there are other changing facilities, I wouldn't have put myself in that situation

What???

I wonder, though, did anyone know in advance that Upton was a bloke before he arrived? Could the nurses have been warned?

Female on his GMC registration, female on his paperwork.

ED - only SP NC - needed to warn all nurses not just SP ED - doesn't seem to bother others NC - did you know SP had been assaulted by a male GP when 17 ED - didn't have that info NC - not surprising a woman with a hist of sexual trauma is partic upset by sharing CR with a male

I wouldn't have put myself in that situation

I can't bear this attitude from another woman.

NC - meeting DU undressed in CR

ED - can only assume they are at risk of being exposed to that in CR

NC - other reasons too why nurses may be upset meeting TW in CR, religious beliefs, strong cultural taboos re proximity to men. All exacerbate?

ED - there are others who

So she wouldn't have chosen to change in a room with him but expects SP to or to relocate and inconvenience herself.

I wonder whether NC is going to sprinkle around some "biological females" to demonstrate that people working in a medical context generally find the term wholly comprehensible?

ED - not unreasonable she would be upset. But there are other changing facilities, I wouldn't have put myself in that situation NC - no reason yo shoudl have known about the assault. WOuldn't expect to know this about any of your nurses. ED - no

This is inclusion for you folks. A woman who has suffered sexual assault forced to undress in front of an intact male, who presumably is free to strip to his meat and two veg if he likes.

Id love to know what ED believes a man and a woman is to be honest.

When she 'tried not to put herself in that situation' Dr Upton took notes and reported her!

ED - not unreasonable she would be upset. But there are other changing facilities, I wouldn't have put myself in that situation

Fucking hell.

ED - change in cubicles away from women

NC - wide range of feelings

ED - and choices they make

NC - wide range of feelings, personal histories, religion and taboos you may not know about - you are right it would have been nice for you to know DU going in there B4 it happened?

NC - history of sexual trauma ED - I wouldn't know NC - people don't declare it to employers? ED - no, I wouldn't know NC - may be any no. of nurses with trauma who feel upset etc on encountering DU in changing? ED - couldn't comment NC - others put at this risk

This likely makes SP generally sound even more like a credible witness as it fits with her own description of being relieved and wanting to go in and have someone to talk to. ED was channelling empathy to get her into the room where the formalities would take place.

Is NC allowed to ask if ED would be happy to see a man in the CR?

yes

ED - yes it would

NC - so you could tell them in advance to be fair to the nurses

ED - yes

NC - you said, meant to be respectful of cultural beliefs, in that context you meant DU belief he's a woman?

ED - don't understand. Lots of cultural beliefs.

Why should a woman having a menstrual flood have to traipse to another floor to change.

ED would say she's cool with it so best not to ask.

Oh, this is the no one knew he was using the changing room isn't it

NC - meeting DU undressed in CR ED - can only assume they are at risk of being exposed to that in CR NC - other reasons too why nurses may be upset meeting TW in CR, religious beliefs, strong cultural taboos re proximity to men. All exacerbate? ED - there are others who ED - change in cubicles away from women NC - wide range of feelings ED - and choices they make NC - wide range of feelings, personal histories, religion and taboos you may not know about - you are right it would have been nice for you to know DU going in there B4 it happened?