NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

DU varying degrees of seriousness.

[JR mentions comments of ppl in room tutting and mocking R2]

J treat everyone appropriately or will leave.

DU refusing to do obs or say in room is relatively low level. Wish I'd made a note but didn't. Wasn't making allegation v C but concern

I was surprised that patient safety was last on the list

It does, but the judge seems a bit over-sensitive to it......suggesting she's used that line before - rather than realising it is the nature of this reality.

Jane Russell has used the "this is not a roving public inquiry" line at least 4 times that I've counted.

What he no doubt means is beeeeekind.

Is she letting him slide under the bus to try to save NHS Fife?

Sounds like the crown are getting restless in the court. I wonder if they have any rotten tomatoes.

Judge reprimanding people in R2 -for making disapproving noises. Shut up or leave.

Annoyingly somebody had already nicked NebulousDogWhistle.

I am usually a cat so I'm easing into my new identity.

NC You agreed my summary that SP so bigoted that wasn't prepared to put that aside and be prof. you agreed

DU Disagree . Patient was serious

NC I said potential. If someone is prepared to act with a patient who is sick

DU Not all patients are vv seriously ill.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transgender-doctor-crowdfunder-raises-more-34662299

Perhaps he will be the Scapegoat?

From what's come out so far re: lack of following proper procedure I think NHS Fife are way, way beyond saving.

DU Fast moving place, AE. Not like a court.

NC So you're saying your allegation not too bad.

DU No. Just potentially and that's why I mentally noted it.

From what's come out so far re: lack of following proper procedure I think NHS Fife are way, way beyond saving.

True.

Place holding... gtg work wahh

NC I said if that was true SP would need to be suspended at once. She'd be a danger to patients and poss FtP

Du there are degrees of danger. Poss called away to something more serious. But this is someone who hasn't shared a space with me before. Need to speak to so

Name envy ☁️ 🐶

DU Fast moving place, AE. Not like a court. NC So you're saying your allegation not too bad. DU No. Just potentially and that's why I mentally noted it.

Insinuating he's bored by the pace in court.

Blimey. “Fast moving place… not like court”
you patronising arse.

NC excellent line of questioning here - highlights that Dr U’s concerns are more about him than about patient safety - he clearly says that to him the changing room incident is the most serious.

NC Incidents - CR, resus and missing patient
DU Main complaint c xmas eve. Others are where someone appears to be difficult with me - now in clinical areas, so how do we proceed. still trying to work things out as best for everyone.

DU these are records of my perceptions.
NC EIC re importance of trusting colleagues
DU y v impt
NC patient safety issue
Du Y. Potientially. Yes, I'll agree with you it's a patient safety issue. Trusting with life of human beings - different from eg gossip.

NC and if so bigoted can't work tog with you is patient safety issue.
DU Y if req to work tog
NC suggest that Resus incident should be the most alarming and important of all. More imp than pretending you are a woman.

DU Y if talking c patient safety But xmas eve more important re colleague
NC respecting/validating / paying lip service/ immersive role play that you are a man was more imps for you than that SP has abandoned her work cos couldn't work with you

DU At that point we were talking about C behaviour to wards me. There can be two different kinds of severity.
NC Your demand to have ppl pretend you are a w when you're not and id validated flattens everything in path. C's article 9 right,

DU these are records of my perceptions.
NC EIC re importance of trusting colleagues
DU y v impt
NC patient safety issue
Du Y. Potientially. Yes, I'll agree with you it's a patient safety issue. Trusting with life of human beings - different from eg gossip.

Tbf he's doing a pretty good job putting himself there anyway but I suspect JR can't win either way if she is representing both DU and NHSFife.

It was mentioned in earlier threads DU was given permission to be in the CR, so is only doing as told which means the permission has come from NHSFife and their ridiculous DEI policies, and NHSFife haven't done their due diligence with regards to proper process, but equally DU has taken liberties and is showing his true colours with his omissions and self righteousness.

Probably needs two minutes to have a quiet swear to himself.

To those who don't know me, I have filed a similar employment tribunal complaint against a large public sector employer in England's side, also represented by Naomi Cunningham. Second preliminary hearing will be in February. More info available on CrowdJustice.com, pls search for Faye Russell-Caldicott.

The last weekend before the prel hearing is now approaching, all support would be hugely appreciated.

serious and clear it up.

NC you spoke to KS on 29 /12. The incident was between 25/10 and 18/12 - on C evidence was 31/10, early in period. You said it might have been a misunderstanding. that's an eg as to why concerns like this need to be IX straightaway

DU tying themself in knots trying to backtrack from patient danger while promoting that their hurt feelings were the important concern

NC If bigoted colleague all hell should have broken loose. If not, then different.

DU At time I was thinking of it as comm issue. Poss naive. A failing on my part. For me to reflect on my thresholds for raising concerns/urgent concerns