NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

Or alternatively - I just wanted to control one hospital/department without the police ferreting around in my emails... oh dear that rather back fired - an ET is possibly far worse than the police in this instance (good for sunlight tho). We are getting a bargain bin of issues in one hearing - changing rooms, medical care, intimate examinations, WORIADS, vocabulary/possible protected terms/definitions... I started out feeling sorry for DU. Then went to the ick. Now DU is potentially god's gift to feminism. Hallelujiah!

It sounds as if the BMA had perhaps suggested a misunderstanding with SP in the A&E -so to proceed with caution.

NC Xmas incident. You treated that as terribly urgent - finding EP in early minutes of Xmas morning. Your story of being disrespected detained her but the resus incident was raised at once.

DU Didn't detain EP - told her had been deeply distressed by colleague and needed to

Stands for 'cis'. X considers cis as hate speech.

Doesn't suppress our account because we have strong engagement, but would suppress smaller accounts that use 'cis' even in quote tweets or replies.

Of COURSE it wasn't too bad, really. Nothing like asking you to leave the CR because you're a man. That was much, much worse than being reckless about patient safety.

He is such a snide

Good luck Faye

Just seen an article on this case and if this is what a Doctor has said

The term biologically female or biologically male is completely nebulous. It has no defined or agreed meaning in science, as far as I’m aware. I’m not a robot, so I am biological and my identity is female. Without wanting to appeal to the dictionary too much, I’m biologically female

Why is this person a doctor and hasn’t been struck off for not knowing basic biological facts between male and female bodies

Du tell her.

NC Benefit of hindsight - xmas incident /resus incident. Did you get th priorities v badly wrong

DU No - incidents didn't conflict. Would have been sensible. I prob should have raised resus incident sooner. Not prioritising incidents over the other.

NC Xmas incident. You treated that as terribly urgent - finding EP in early minutes of Xmas morning. Your story of being disrespected detained her but the resus incident [missed]
DU Didn't detain EP - told her had been deeply distressed by colleague and needed to

NC Xmas incident. You treated that as terribly urgent - finding EP in early minutes of Xmas morning. Your story of being disrespected detained her but the resus incident was raised at once.

NC suggesting his concerns about being disrespected by a bigot were more serious than his concerns about patient safety.

NC If bigoted colleague all hell should have broken loose. If not, then different.

DU At time I was thinking of it as comm issue. Poss naive. A failing on my part. For me to reflect on my thresholds for raising concerns/urgent concerns

Sounds like he might have been taking advice from his defence union at last!

NC You have prof obligations to raise concerns.

DU Some one asking abruptly to do ob not as serious as another event, but nothing to do with my assessment of xmas incident.

I wish I could see this - is he squirming I wonder? Is he capable of squirm, though?😠

He is still a doctor because he has said he's a woman and used it as a way to control those around him.

That's it.

Pls link article🙏

Untruth drips from him

he is, or at least was totally unflustered and in control

He taps his foot when he gets flustered, from watching other days.

NC I said if that was true SP would need to be suspended at once. She'd be a danger to patients and poss FtP
Du there are degrees of danger. Poss called away to something more serious. But this is someone who hasn't shared a space with me before. Need to speak to so serious and clear it up.
NC you spoke to KS on 29 /12. The incident was between 25/10 and 18/12 - on C evidence was 31/10, early in period. You said it might have been a misunderstanding. that's an eg as to why concerns like this need to be IX straightaway

And blinks.

NC Nursing Midwifery Code. Don't have dr one here. Act without delay if risk to patient/public safety. Dr one would be similar. You have comparable obligations.

JR NMS doesn't give time frame

J Not code for this kind of witness. Need to use GMC code

NC Not in bundle. Shortcut.

So the patient care incident is now "someone speaking abruptly" 🙄🙄🙄

Apparently we've entered a parallel universe, where we're all expected to listen to the ramblings of a fantasist and keep a straight face.

If you're happy to, please direct your question to the Scottish Government. They really need to be answering it.

NC You have prof obligations to raise concerns.

DU: Some one asking abruptly to do ob not as serious as another event, but nothing to do with my assessment of xmas incident.