NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #14

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although once it was in to the second week it was looking like this would not happen. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the livestreaming, apparently, as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but don't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12
Thread 13: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272398-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-13

DrU and KS considered whether to report Sandie to the police!

(For misgendering/hurt feelings)

DU Depends on context. I'm not a man. Someone misgendering isn't necessarily a crime. Some colleagues do it by accident.
NC But if colleague say you are a man, don't want you to use CR, q clearly. A police matter?
DU Didn't report. Didn't know if would reach level for police

NC [reads] KS notes - we talked about reporting to police. So you considered it?
DU No, we discussed. You said a police report would be labyrinthine - you wouldn't want to get involved in a long process/scrutiny
No, given attitudes to t ppl. Didn't want to-hope we could resolve

DU these are records of my perceptions. NC EIC re importance of trusting colleagues DU y v impt NC patient safety issue Du Y. Potientially. Yes, I'll agree with you it's a patient safety issue. Trusting with life of human beings - different from eg gossip.

Always trying to stay in control of the narrative.

@Ereshkigalangcleg If there is a serious incident my understanding is the datix must be completed as soon as possible. If a junior doctor was in any doubt about whether an incident was serious enough to report I'd expect them to consult someone more senior.

What NHS Fife will be claiming is that the datix was done when it was realised that Sandie's attitude to upton was a risk to patient safety. But they dont seem to have anything to back that up except Dr U's minor - and disputed - recollections.

DU Y if talking c patient safety But xmas eve more important re colleague

NC respecting/validating / paying lip service/ immersive role play that you are a man was more imps for you than that SP has abandoned her work cos couldn't work with you

Do we have an i/d on the person at the BMA who was possibly giving DU legal advice?

JR said yesterday - when the BMA e-mails issue was being discussed - that not all could be disclosed because some e-mails contained privileged lawyer/client information. Is that what NC was hinting at today - that DU delays to providing a statement was because they were getting legal advice over what to say?

NC Resus incident is most alarming and important of all. More imp than pretending you are a woman.

Haha! 😀

Place mark - falling behind again!

God I love NC

I agree. Safeguarding issues. They should have an investigation.
Oh hang on...

NC I suggest reason for delay in submitting HI doc you were urgently taking BMA advice re regulatory risk for you in raising serious prof complaints agst SP so long after incident and risk on yourself for making accusations against SP
DU No. Took long cos waiting for BMA

DU Wouldn't need BMA advice re making false allegations against a colleague cos I'm not in the habit of making false allegations against a colleague.

J Five minute break

DU At that point we were talking about C behaviour towards me. There can be two different kinds of severity.

NC Your demand to have ppl pretend you are a w when you're not and id validated flattens everything in path. C's article 9 right,

NC going in for the kill

NC is reaching peak robot dinosaur today. Love her.

NC respecting/validating / paying lip service/ immersive role play that you are a man was more imps for you than that SP has abandoned her work cos couldn't work with you

Yes, was Dr U's delay in submitting documents because he had begun to realise the implications of making accusations of serious professional misconduct against SP
(NC asked this, DrU said no)

NC art 8 right, art 10 right - and flattens interest of patient safety. Only thing matters that others should forced to share your belief system.

JR We went round and round y day. This witness has art 8 and Eq Act rights too.

J difficult to ask qs on premise.

I think the judge needs to get his prostate checked......lots of toilet breaks.

I think that is the first time today JR has interjected, she must be restraining herself.

JR took her time getting around to objecting today

She knows she’s fucked lol

What does lower case c mean from TT? I've seen it a fair bit. I don't think it means claimant in the context I've seen it.

Also is Y yes or why? Because my preteen uses it for why so this is how I read it but not sure...

I'm getting a bit behind here but it seems very arrogant odd to email the BMA over Christmas and expect instant replies.

Don't think claimed that HR engaged in tribunal.

J A disputed q

NC Can put q again.

JR Pls moderation of language. Immersive etc

J We've been over ground again. Repetitive qs are an issue.

NC Not sure I follow

J Immersive term. You've asked that.

NC Your demand to have ppl pretend you are a w when you're not and id validated flattens everything in path. C's article 9 right,

Probably scared about the prospect of adjournment and the time then available to get on top of all this extra info that keeps coming out the woodwork.