Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The chair of SEEN is being sued.

455 replies

PriOn1 · 19/03/2024 18:07

We can’t post Crowdfunder links here, but there is now a Crowdfunder entitled “Chair of SEEN sued for saying 'only women menstruate'by Elspeth Duemmer Wrigley”

Text from website:

Who are you?
I'm Elspeth Duemmer Wrigley. I work for an arms-length body to a government department (part of the Civil Service) and love my job. I'm also gender critical, and chair of a governmental department SEEN (Sex Equality and Equity Network). SEEN represents those who are gender critical in our workplace.
What can you tell us?
The way I describe the case is restrained by my situation. I am writing this in a personal capacity, but am still employed and must comply with my employer's code of conduct and the Nolan Principles of Public Life. This places certain restrictions on me.
I’ve given as much information as I can, but I hope that what I set out below is sufficient to understand what’s going on.
So what happened?
I work for an arms-length body to the main government department. The case has been brought by a claimant who is an employee of another arms-length body. The claimant is taking their own employer, the government department and me to court.
Among other matters, the claimant is suing the government department for allowing our departmental SEEN network to exist (on the basis that the existence of the network has the effect of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating and/or offensive environment for the claimant).
What is the SEEN network?
SEEN (the Sex Equality and Equity Network) is an official cross-governmental staff network. We also have networks in three government departments (including the one being taken to court). SEEN is known as the gender critical network and is the only civil service network that clearly treats sex and sexual orientation as concepts defined in the Equality Act, which should never be conflated with or replaced by ‘gender identity’.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
48
Codlingmoths · 20/03/2024 22:29

Peskysquirrel · 20/03/2024 13:59

@Iamnotalemming An additional point I hadn't noted previously - reported in the Lawyer - is that the claimant is seeking financial compensation, disbanding the Seen network, disciplinary action against Duemmer Wrigley and an unequivocal written apology.

Wow! Seriously? That's taking the phrase "go big or go home" to quite an extreme!

There is surely no way they can find that the seen network should be banned. I hope the claimants identity becomes known, people should know if someone so irrational and vindictive works in their department so they can stay the fuck away. For genuine safety unlike the ‘safety’ claimed here to be at risk. I hope this attempt at bullying gc people at work goes up in flames for them.

UltraLiteLife · 20/03/2024 22:36

feeling even more afraid of my membership becoming known at work. Which is both pathetic and chilling.

That is plausibly the motivating force for this action. Like the attack on LGB Alliance, attack it before it can become established. The intent is to make people afraid to join it. Especially if zealous colleagues who might be emboldened by the next government to initiate struggle sessions in which they denounce Goody Proctor their colleagues.

Froodwithatowel · 20/03/2024 22:37

JanesLittleGirl · 20/03/2024 17:02

I usually just make one pledge. This time I have pledged £5 every time I hear someone say "fuck". 13 fucks have been given.

Reader, I married her.

This is genius, and should become a Thing in the line of women's resistance. Counting the fucks we give.
💪

Boiledbeetle · 20/03/2024 22:40

Getting closer! Over £38,000

The chair of SEEN is being sued.
UltraLiteLife · 20/03/2024 22:49

Peskysquirrel · 20/03/2024 13:59

@Iamnotalemming An additional point I hadn't noted previously - reported in the Lawyer - is that the claimant is seeking financial compensation, disbanding the Seen network, disciplinary action against Duemmer Wrigley and an unequivocal written apology.

Wow! Seriously? That's taking the phrase "go big or go home" to quite an extreme!

Elon GIF by Dogelon Mars

This is straining at a gnat though if I pause to think about the Flawless Victory in changing the language of the NHS, officialdom, education, public services, the workplace…

Why wouldn't the claimant believe all of these demands will be met?

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 20/03/2024 23:08

PronounssheRa · 20/03/2024 09:26

That's interesting, i wonder what the point of this survey was then?

https://www.agender.org.uk/_files/ugd/89858a_2ade1d989d8a47b0877b0c2cbb03184e.pdf

How fucking fragile are these people?

songaboutjam · 20/03/2024 23:22

PronounssheRa · 20/03/2024 09:26

That's interesting, i wonder what the point of this survey was then?

https://www.agender.org.uk/_files/ugd/89858a_2ade1d989d8a47b0877b0c2cbb03184e.pdf

Good grief.

It was at a work social rather than the workplace, but I had to listen to superiors bonding over how much they hated "TERFs".

I've also been in genuinely intimidating workplaces, had purposely humiliating job interviews etc.

This language is so mild in comparison you have to wonder if these respondents have ever been exposed to actual hatred or toxic work environments.

SinnerBoy · 21/03/2024 04:03

99point6

Can I ask who is deleting comments on your SEEN network?

AutumnCrow · 21/03/2024 05:09

£38,817
pledged of £40,000 stretch target from 1592 pledges

Closing in on the target at the coming of the dawn.

SinnerBoy · 21/03/2024 05:41

I was really confident that it would have been at £40,000 by close of play yesterday, but it's still excellent.

PurpleWhirple · 21/03/2024 06:24

UltraLiteLife · 20/03/2024 22:36

feeling even more afraid of my membership becoming known at work. Which is both pathetic and chilling.

That is plausibly the motivating force for this action. Like the attack on LGB Alliance, attack it before it can become established. The intent is to make people afraid to join it. Especially if zealous colleagues who might be emboldened by the next government to initiate struggle sessions in which they denounce Goody Proctor their colleagues.

Well an unintended consequence has been me joining SEEN. Wasn't even aware of its existence before this thread.

99point6 · 21/03/2024 06:51

SinnerBoy · 21/03/2024 04:03

99point6

Can I ask who is deleting comments on your SEEN network?

I believe it is internal Comms that have the role of moderating, deleting and following up with individuals. There is a rule about not to make derogatory comments about any official staff network. Impossible to comment anonymously.

notsorighteousthesedays · 21/03/2024 07:29

I have tried to join SEEN a couple of times but when I get as far acknowledging the welcome email my civil service server blocks access!! Who'd a thunk it?

And like others I'm a little bit wary of making too much fuss.....

I will just keep trying 😶

crunchermuncher · 21/03/2024 07:52

notsorighteousthesedays · 21/03/2024 07:29

I have tried to join SEEN a couple of times but when I get as far acknowledging the welcome email my civil service server blocks access!! Who'd a thunk it?

And like others I'm a little bit wary of making too much fuss.....

I will just keep trying 😶

That's awful and undemocratic. It's a legitimate staff network and should be treated exactly like all the others.

The rot goes deep.

Boiledbeetle · 21/03/2024 07:53

£39,002 and 1604 pledges

The chair of SEEN is being sued.
BraveFacesEveryone · 21/03/2024 07:53

I’m in the process of joining SEEN, not civil service but for my profession, rather than workplace and it’s a reassuringly robust process. Honestly had it in the back of my mind initially that it could be something someone set up to try and get details of GC folk to out them, which is such a sad state of affairs to have legitimate and real concerns about.

SinnerBoy · 21/03/2024 08:10

99point6 · Today 06:51

Is it controlled by trans zealots? Surely it should be for and by GC members? I wonder if there's anything you can do to get control of it?

Codlingmoths · 21/03/2024 08:15

notsorighteousthesedays · 21/03/2024 07:29

I have tried to join SEEN a couple of times but when I get as far acknowledging the welcome email my civil service server blocks access!! Who'd a thunk it?

And like others I'm a little bit wary of making too much fuss.....

I will just keep trying 😶

Maybe someone who is a member can complain for you?

99point6 · 21/03/2024 08:15

@SinnerBoy
These are department wide posts on the main Intranet pages. Helpful for raising awareness of the network.

Separately there are SEEN only means of communicating within the network.

anyolddinosaur · 21/03/2024 08:26

Still rising £39,082 now

DefenestratingZebra · 21/03/2024 08:33

Peskysquirrel · 20/03/2024 13:59

@Iamnotalemming An additional point I hadn't noted previously - reported in the Lawyer - is that the claimant is seeking financial compensation, disbanding the Seen network, disciplinary action against Duemmer Wrigley and an unequivocal written apology.

Wow! Seriously? That's taking the phrase "go big or go home" to quite an extreme!

They say "go big or go home," we say "fuck around and find out." I think reaching £40K in 48 hours, many mainstream news articles and multiple new SEEN members definitely comes under finding out what most people think about censorship at work.

FrancescaContini · 21/03/2024 08:39

I love “fuck around and find out”. Very pleased for Elspeth!

AutumnCrow · 21/03/2024 09:10

£39,457
pledged of £40,000 stretch target from 1621 pledges

DP just said he’s going to donate 🙂

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 21/03/2024 09:20

PronounssheRa · 20/03/2024 09:26

That's interesting, i wonder what the point of this survey was then?

https://www.agender.org.uk/_files/ugd/89858a_2ade1d989d8a47b0877b0c2cbb03184e.pdf

Oh good lord. It is the Jo Phoenix situation all over again. Just stating that you believe sex is binary and immutable is taken as a threat and creating a hostile work environment? It just emphasises to me that mental health support is so vital as part of the transitioning process because it would help trans people develop a bit more resilience. As for some of the other comments referencing intersex as proof that sex isn’t binary, well I hope those employees aren’t in areas where this kind of opinion actually impacts public policy and services.

Did they publish how many people responded to the survey? A small number of respondents can really skew the stats.

PronounssheRa · 21/03/2024 09:51

Did they publish how many people responded to the survey? A small number of respondents can really skew the stats.

Not as far as I am aware.

They have been community noted though

The chair of SEEN is being sued.
Swipe left for the next trending thread