Another GC employment tribunal: Roz Adams vs Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre #3

[nauticant]

Roz Adams was employed by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre (ERCC) as a counsellor. She is claiming constructive dismissal for Gener Critical (GC) beliefs. The CEO of ERCC is a well known transwoman known for, among other things, controversial "reframe your trauma" remarks.

There's live tweeting from https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets or if Twitter doesn't show the tweets, look at https://nitter.net/tribunaltweets. There's an informative substack here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre

This post explains how to get access to watch the hearing: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2?page=24&reply=132419912

Abbreviations:
J: Employment Judge McFatridge
RA: Roz Adams, the claimant
NC: Naomi Cunningham, barrister for the claimant
ERCC or R: Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, the respondent
DH: David Hay KC, barrister for the respondent
KM: Katy McTernan, ERCC Senior management
MR: Mairi Rosko, ERCC Board Member
MS: Miren Sagues, ERCC Board Member
KH: Katie Horburgh, ERCC Board Member
AB: ERCC staff member (name redacted)
NCi: Nico Ciubotariu, COO of ERCC
MW: Mridul Wadhwa, CEO of ERCC
BP: Beira's Place

RA gave evidence over 15-18 January 2024.

Witnesses:
Nicole Jones (NJ): 18 January 2024 (on behalf of RA)
Mairi Rosko (MR): 19 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
Katy McTernan (referred to both as KT and KM): 22 January 2024 (on behalf of ERCC)
[more to follow]

Thread #1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4985570-another-gc-employment-tribunal-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crsis
Thread #2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4988632-another-gc-employment-tribunal-roz-adams-vs-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-2

Will TT ever release these threads as a book?
They'd also make an amazing drama

Must not. Must not.

Review to finish.

Must not.

(Oh, who am I trying to kid.)

Jo Phoenix's judgement couldn't have come out at a better time, really.

The pile on was at a smaller scale, but worse IMO

Being involved in this fight is such an emotional roller coaster isn't it! This afternoon I'm wanting to scream at the appalling policies of a RAPE CRISIS CENTRE that says they only offer a female only service on a Tuesday and that they wouldn't inform a victim if her support worker was a man, and then I'm fist pumping the air in elation that Jo Phoenix has won her case.

need a lie down in a darkened room now!

Brilliant news for Jo 💪

I was going to come here and say this. And GC belief is protected in the same clause as religion - 'religion or belief' so they'd have to hoick it out. And Grainger is well established case law.

There may well a more hostile environment and de facto self-id will expand still further. But what happened to Wee Nippy was an object lesson that gender ideology can make you look like an idiot.

And I don't see how that 'female-only service on a Tuesday' can be female only anyway, given that KMT and ERCC think that a woman is anyone who says they are.

Wee Nippy was an object lesson that gender ideology can make you look like an idiot.

To be honest from all I've seen since the wheels fell off the SNP clown car clown luxury home she's been an idiot for a very long time. It may all have only all been laid bare recently, but it's clear there's a lot of it going back a very long way. A new clown of equal stature has replaced her who rides a scooter, but it's him that falls off the scooter not the wheels.

Thanks everyone for very entertaining and informative updates

It's not even on a Tuesday.

See marked up bits attached

How do you know that someone works for ERCC?

Here is a simple pictorial guide.

How many people here are familiar with the You Tube channels that stream and comment on hearings in US courts (from every level, family, traffic, probation arrangements, murder trials)?

It's eye-opening on many levels. I'm embarrassed to say that I now know more about nuances of laws and trials in various states than I do England and the devolved nations. (I have an intellectual crush on several judges for their wisdom, compassion, and the easy way in which they discuss minutiae of constitutional law.)

How long do you think this fol de rol would survive if we were to have informed or Jo Public commentators streaming and talking about proceedings in these Employment Tribunals?

We need Open Justice!

There's no female only group support at ERCC.

They seen to have wiped their website of details but I copied this a few months ago from their website -

'Women only spaces

We offer women only spaces (which are inclusive of trans women) in our centre on Tuesdays 4pm – 7pm, Wednesdays 12.30pm – 4pm and Fridays 9am – 12.30pm. The rest of the week we offer appointments to people of all genders.'

They provide support to all sorts of clients. Just not women who require a female only service. Hence the need for Beira's Place.

Just not women who require a female only service.

Well, it's a bit niche, innit?

How aware of Beira's place are women in Scotland who require female only spaces? I read on one of these threads somewhere that ERCC are choosing not to refer women on.

Presumably when encountering victims who express a need for female only spaces and SW they could have done just that. Assuming of course they have the slightest bit of empathy which they've made very clear in this ET they don't.

Honestly, I don't know. I was encouraged to see a Beira's Place poster on the noticeboard of a village near me (in the arse end of nowhere) but aside from that, who knows.

It's worth noting that Beira's Place do signpost to other services and include website links on their 'Useful Links' page.

Unfortunately, ERCC seem to take great pride in not signposting appropriate services for vulnerable women.

@TheseCowsAreSmall could you screen soo the relevant bit please, I'm just getting a link to the whole judgement

Just caught up with today’s threads and about to hit TT for the detail.
I bet NC found today totally cathartic.

I hope that Jo's win gives Roz Adams even more courage.

My interpretation is that these decisions are not relevant to the law on trans issues per se, but to the rights of employees (and everyone else) to talk about the law and its impacts, whilst referencing biological sex. The tribunal was at pains to point out that the claimant was not transphobic, and was therefore entitled to carry out her research without harassment.

And I just finished reading it instead of working😆

Very thorough judgement which is at times highly critical of the dissembling and evasive manner of some of the OU's witnesses.

Because I'm spiteful, this was the part of Phoenix v OU that I enjoyed the most.

See how the tribunal disdains the salty tears of the handmaiden!

Ooh that's quite the judicial burn. 😂

Bristol Rape Crisis, called SARSAS also only had mixed sex services. Although it calls them ‘women only’ services. I wonder if there will be anything similar happening there ever and if any of their staff are GC.

From their website under the women only spaces section: We are committed to providing this. We offer women-only spaces (which are inclusive of trans women) on set days in our Bristol and Taunton hubs. The rest of the week, and in our counselling venues outside of Bristol and Taunton, we offer appointments to people of all genders.

But they also say they’re a trauma informed service.