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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Tory councilor has trans women on the brain

67 replies

invalide · 27/02/2023 14:03

Does anyone else feel the messaging here is a little on the nose I mean imagine if the councilor had exclaimed "A black woman" or "A gay woman" with the same stomach-sinking, intrepid sense as she did "A trans woman." in response to seeing someone washing her hands and leaving...
Also "any pub in the country" is rather creating panic at something that isn't there...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Shelefttheweb · 27/02/2023 14:11

You are being disingenuous. Black and gay women are women so she would not have exclaimed at seeing them in the women’s toilets. Transwomen are men so should use the men’s toilets. Comparing black women or gay women to men is racist and homophobic.

TheBiologyStupid · 27/02/2023 14:16

There's another (short) thread about this incident: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4747969-councillors-letter-to-kemi-re-womens-toilet

bellac11 · 27/02/2023 14:16

Men shouldnt be in womens toilets though.

And the person is clearly unperturbed at causing offence by the odious phrase 'cis woman'.

And how did the person know it was a biological woman anyway? Oh thats right because its perfectly easy to spot.

Ofcourseshecan · 27/02/2023 14:18

Shelefttheweb · 27/02/2023 14:11

You are being disingenuous. Black and gay women are women so she would not have exclaimed at seeing them in the women’s toilets. Transwomen are men so should use the men’s toilets. Comparing black women or gay women to men is racist and homophobic.

Yes, stunningly racist and homophobic! Do you realise that even Tory women and female councillors have the right to single-sex spaces?

Ofcourseshecan · 27/02/2023 14:19

Do you realise that even Tory women and female councillors have the right to single-sex spaces?

My question is addressed to the OP, who seems surprised that a woman didn't like finding a male person in the women's loo.

ClaphamSouth · 27/02/2023 14:27

Christ, the rank misogyny dripping from that twitter thread Confused "c*s women look the same to me" - imagine if that was said about any other group.

Clymene · 27/02/2023 14:29

Shelefttheweb · 27/02/2023 14:11

You are being disingenuous. Black and gay women are women so she would not have exclaimed at seeing them in the women’s toilets. Transwomen are men so should use the men’s toilets. Comparing black women or gay women to men is racist and homophobic.

💯

ErrolTheDragon · 27/02/2023 14:35

It was wasn't the transwoman washing that was the issue, it was parting penis comment which caused the councillor's disquiet.Hmm
Probably would have been better if the latter had written this piece using some term other than 'trans woman' - the 'person' recently overrunning information re female health issues would have been better. Or an accurate phrase we're generally not supposed to use here.

Shame on you, OP, for trying to compare a male talking about his penis (the individual didn't declare pronouns so I don't see why I shouldn't use standard English) with a black woman or a gay woman.

ThisIsJeopardy · 27/02/2023 14:41

It's possible that the male person said 'jeans' and the woman misheard it as 'penis' because that's what was on her mind during the interaction.

Which would only demonstrate that even though women are socialised to make nice and do the small talk thing, leading many TRAs to assert that "nobody ever had a problem" with their abuse of women's spaces, in reality many of us are deeply uncomfortable in those situations, and very aware of the potential physical and sexual threat that the male in that space represents.

Whether he actually said something so grossly inappropriate as what she heard, or whether his presence there intimidated her to the point where she interpreted his comment through her fear in that moment, the point is the same: TWAM, and men don't belong in women's spaces.

howmanybicycles · 27/02/2023 14:45

There was a man in the ladies loo. That's the issue. Anyone focusing on anything else is getting confused by the smoke and mirrors. Transwoman means man - they, like every other man, should not go into the ladies. If they do, it shows, at best, a lack of respect for women.

RoyalCorgi · 27/02/2023 14:51

Much hilarity at "I can't be sure about the lady (cis women look the same to me)"

Yeah, right.

LakeTiticaca · 27/02/2023 14:52

Why would a black woman or a gay woman in a ladies toilet be worthy of comment?
Why would someone with a penis (and drawing attention to the fact) be worthy of comment?......oh wait

unclebuck · 27/02/2023 14:55

It is racist to suggest that a black woman or a lesbian is male, they are women and have the right to a single sex toilet, like all women do.

Fififafa · 27/02/2023 14:56

Your OP doesn’t make any sense. Why would a woman in the ladies loo be startled by “a black woman” or “a gay woman”? That doesn’t make sense. However a woman seeing a man/TW in the ladies loo would be startling.

SinnerBoy · 27/02/2023 14:59

invalide · Today 14:03

Does anyone else feel the messaging here is a little on the nose I mean imagine if the councilor had exclaimed "A black woman" or "A gay woman" with the same stomach-sinking, intrepid sense as she did "A trans woman."

No, because I'm not insane. What gave me the stomach sinking feeling was the man in a dress telling Ms. Sampson that he was going to dry his hands on his penis. Not to mention, him being an unwanted and unnerving presence in the ladies, to begin with.

You know, what with the man in a dress being a man and he should have gone to the gents.

cunningartificer · 27/02/2023 15:07

Having read this, I'm interested in the two very different accounts of a conversation which are otherwise similar. In my field of study if this was a textual error in a manuscript it would be assumed the comment was 'on my pants' as this would make sense of the two variant readings 'penis' (sounds like pants) and 'jeans' (means pants, in the sense of trousers). I'm inclined to believe that may have been what happened here. Hardly worth the Daily mail link.

Ofcourseshecan · 27/02/2023 15:10

I send my sympathy to Cllr Samson. I get an unpleasant stress reaction when I see a man in the women's toilets. Especially if he is wearing a dress, as that means there's no chance he just blundered through the wrong door. My personal experiences of being trapped in a small space by a man outweigh any amount of "they just want to invade women's space pee" propaganda.

ClaphamSouth · 27/02/2023 15:13

Pants is more likely to be understood as referring to underwear than trousers in London, ime. A man telling a woman in the women's toilet that he was going to wipe his hands on his underwear wouldn't be much less unpleasant than using the word penis.

SinnerBoy · 27/02/2023 15:18

cunningartificer · Today 15:07

I'm inclined to believe that may have been what happened here. Hardly worth the Daily mail link.

She was there and heard and experienced it, you weren't and did it. I'm inclined to believe her and dismiss your dismissal.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 27/02/2023 15:19

Does ‘penis’ sound like ‘jeans’?

Maybe…

😱

This person is documented on the PhilosophyTube thread over at the Fruit Farm.

Tory councilor has trans women on the brain
Tory councilor has trans women on the brain
Tory councilor has trans women on the brain
Tory councilor has trans women on the brain
SinnerBoy · 27/02/2023 15:20

Sorry, what? I've just tightened my belt, as my jeanis were slipping down...

lifeturnsonadime · 27/02/2023 15:25

gosh how homophobic and racist can you be?

nilsmousehammer · 27/02/2023 15:37

Of course men never make sexually inappropriate comments to women, or try to involve them non consentingly as props in their personal experience and agendas, or behave inappropriately in women's spaces for sexual reasons.

🙄

And of course women are never believed, because believing them means having to start facing that men in women's spaces is not working for women. And you can only think it's a great idea if you're a male supremacist. (And apparently a bit homophobic and racist, but that's pretty common in this political movement. We haven't had any ageism yet, keep up.)

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 27/02/2023 15:39

Whatever did the OP think this would achieve?

mystifying

LakeTiticaca · 27/02/2023 15:39

@cunningartificer penis does not sound like pants .
Penis sounds like penis.