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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

736 replies

Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

OP posts:
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Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:15

However, I do honestly believe that making the legal and educational points carried far more weight than all the possible emotion I could have mustered.

OP posts:
Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:16

There are a group of 8 of us now, who are going to carry this on, and look into what is being taught in RSE, specifically with regards to changing sex, and how gender is taught without stereotypes.

OP posts:
bellac11 · 27/02/2023 13:16

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/02/2023 18:56

And all the cat-gender kids would be hissing and spitting for a bed on top of the radiator . . .

And the fae gender would be demanding those spotty toadstools to kip under . . .

The two-spirit gender would be drunk all the time, I expect, and the pangenders would doubtless sleep on a shelf in the kitchen - that would cause hygiene problems.

The implications are endless.

Nope - stick to boring old binary sex divisions. We can both define them and recognise them at a glance 99.999% of the time. SO much simpler.

Show quote history

You forgot the translender. All the fat people who identify as being skinny.

TeenDivided · 27/02/2023 13:17

@Vebrithien Your long post includes name of school, maybe ask MN to redact it?

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:21

Reported, am an idiot, thanks for letting me know. Feel free to report too, they might see it quicker?

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2023 13:22

Well done OP!

SinnerBoy · 27/02/2023 13:24

What a very good result! I'm pleased for you.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:25

Feel a bit shaky and teary here.

Didn't really think it was going to work, but couldn't, in good conscience, leave it unchallenged.

OP posts:
Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 13:35

Thank you @mumsnet for removing the same of the school!

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 27/02/2023 13:45

Stop shaking and

Dance

for joy!

Grammarnut · 27/02/2023 14:06

ReadtheReviews · 01/02/2023 13:32

Two thoughts. I think the No Outsiders person may mean the posters rather than the children when he says 'i will correct them'. Secondly, that it is a political statement to say 'you have a gender' since the term has been corrupted to not be synonymous with sex but to mean 50+ different things, none of which you are obligated to 'have' or define yourself with if you aren't woo inclined.

I've read that letter twice. The No Outsiders person means correct the children, i.e. tell them the word is 'gender' not 'sex'. Suggesting he does not mean that is stretching the grammar in the sentence to breaking point.

ScrollingLeaves · 27/02/2023 14:24

Well done, Vebrithien! You have been very brave but so calm in the tone you took. The Deputy Head gives the impression of being extremely reluctant to agree, so you did so well to keep to logical arguments and remain resilient in spite of her first answer.

Princessglittery · 27/02/2023 14:27

@Vebrithien well done, a real achievement using an evidence based approach to support your arguments. 🍾Flowers

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 15:30

Thank you all so much for your support!

I have emailed the Safe Schools Alliance,.just to let them know that my letter worked (+ of course, the support of the other mums)

If anyone finds themselves in a similar position, please feel free to use anything from my letter.

Knowing the education system, and the guidance has made the world of a difference, rather than an emotional reaction.

OP posts:
Charley50 · 27/02/2023 16:17

Well done @Vebrithien 🙌😍 Brilliant result!!
I tried, and (mainly) failed, to get senior leadership to change things transgender at my workplace (a college). I think I will go for your approach next. I'll also try and involve colleagues; I have many who agree with me, but not who have spoken out. I'll look for allies (apologies if that word is triggering) in colleagues in other departments too.

dimorphism · 27/02/2023 16:25

Well done @Vebrithien - this is what matters, the chipping away. Fantastic news that the school will be adhering to the law now! You won!

SinnerBoy · 27/02/2023 16:32

Vebrithien · Today 15:30

I have emailed the Safe Schools Alliance,.just to let them know that my letter worked (+ of course, the support of the other mums)

Do they keep statistics and testimonials, do you know? Nice to have a chalk in the win column.

Kucinghitam · 27/02/2023 16:58

Congratulations @Vebrithien!

WarriorN · 27/02/2023 18:36

Fantastic work op! I'm so pleased for you!

nov1ce · 27/02/2023 20:13

Well done @Vebrithien, proving the pen is still
Mighty! Using logic and facts makes a much stronger argument, emotion is much easier to dispute. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Original poster
Vebrithien · 27/02/2023 20:32

Thank you 😊

I've stopped shaking now. Can't gave a glass or two to celebrate, as I'm on my own with the children tonight, but I may crack open the 🍫!

Our little group of people concerned about teaching biological sex, and worried about gender identity teaching, is now thinking about a common route of attack.

OP posts:
ZestFest · 27/02/2023 22:59

You are an inspiration OP. Thank you for standing up and standing out. Courage really does call to courage and you've achieved an incredible outcome. 😘

Boiledbeetle · 27/02/2023 23:01

@Vebrithien what was that?

THE POSTERS ARE GONE!! 💐🍾💜

Original poster
Vebrithien · 28/02/2023 06:11

Boiledbeetle · 27/02/2023 23:01

@Vebrithien what was that?

THE POSTERS ARE GONE!! 💐🍾💜

😆😆😆

OP posts:
teawamutu · 28/02/2023 07:05

Just read this update with a huge grin. Awesome work, @Vebrithien !

And I adore that the tipping point was the rally for KJK. We are so powerful when we stand together and find our voices - you should let KJK know, too.

I'm sure the group has a name now, but I'd have said Vipers. Or maybe Hags 😁

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