Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

[Vebrithien]

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.


I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

[Princessglittery]

@Vebrithien you may be aware but just in case the final
Cass Review report will be issued on Wednesday. You may find it helpful.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5044674-cass-review-out-on-wednesday?reply=134361196

[Xiaoxiong]

@Vebrithien I've PMed you a quick message - hope you pick this up and all is well. I had my meeting, which left me none the wiser about what is taught and how, so I'm escalating to the head...who of course I'm not sure if he's captured as well or if he's just delegated to subordinates and not realised what's going on.

I'm really, REALLY hoping that the draft schools guidance is enacted in full after the consultation closed on March 12th. That will make my complaint that much stronger as it identifies gender ideology and notes that it's a highly contentious issue. The draft guidance alone is useful but if it's brought in as written it will solve a lot of issues.

One foot in front of the other.

[ATerrorofLeftovers]

@BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn

they're refusing to allow me to bring anyone else on the basis that each individual parent has to organise their own meeting.

Given how overstretched and understaffed most schools are, you'd think they'd want as many people as possible at the 1 meeting for efficiency. If it were all above board.

Quite. It would serve them right if they got requests for meetings from 20 parents….

[BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn]

they're refusing to allow me to bring anyone else on the basis that each individual parent has to organise their own meeting.

Given how overstretched and understaffed most schools are, you'd think they'd want as many people as possible at the 1 meeting for efficiency. If it were all above board.

[Xiaoxiong]

@Vebrithien thinking of you today. I've got a meeting with our dephead and the PSHE teacher coming up and they're refusing to allow me to bring anyone else on the basis that each individual parent has to organise their own meeting. I can't believe their attitude - what are they trying to hide. It's very divide and conquer.

I've spent most of the morning at work printing out all the statutory guidance. I've also discovered they revised their RSE policy earlier this year and quietly posted it in the policies section of their website, but no one I know was consulted on it.

I've also just read the new draft guidance again (and responded to the consultation, which took less than 5 mins!) It will assist enormously if it is enacted in full, as the first sentence says that gender ideology is the "belief that a person can have a gender ...that is different to their biological sex. This is a contested belief. Many people believe this concept is one that reinforces stereotypes and social norms relating to sex."

This sentence alone will assist me HUGELY in my criticism of our school's PSHE lessons whic presents gender ideology as a fact.

[SchoolGuidanceQ]

Coming late to this - I have your original posts bookmarked as they've been helpful to refer to when our local primary school brought in No Outsiders and I sent some of the useful suggestions to parents I still know at the school - but catching up on latest (book about trans parent for Y4s and then a fellow parent being banned from school grounds, wtf?!). Anyway, have you contacted Sex Matters? While Safe Schools Alliance and Transgender Trend are very much about schools and children and they'll want to help, they often seem quite stretched, I think they have fewer people and funding than Sex Matters.

Also, have you contacted any local councillors? I know you've said your MP is captured and you're trying to work out how to get attention of DfE but if it's a LA school (is it?, or is it an academy) it can be worth contacting councillor for education, and your local councillors.

[MsGoodenough]

@Xiaoxiong the Christopher winter project is good for primary but not sure if it has secondary. For secondary, EC Publishing resources are better than most, as at least the creator is aware of the Forstater judgment, but it still uses gender identity as if everyone has one.

[HagoftheNorth]

Veb, I am in awe of your capacity to keep going in the face of this shit. Nothing to offer except moral support, your fight helps us all x

[dimorphism]

I mean imagine if there were concerns about a particular teacher - safeguarding's supposed to be for everyone - and together a group of parents' information adds up to a safeguarding concern but each individual event could perhaps be explained away. If parents are banned from talking to each other, you'd never get that safeguarding concern being reported.

[dimorphism]

@SinnerBoy

Well, it seems clear that they are failing in their duty to consult with parents, as well as abusing the clause about causing upset. I also assume that they have absolutely no legal right to prevent parents from communicating with each other.

The banned mother should show the advice to a solicitor.

Imagine if teachers could prevent parents from talking to each other? This Deputy Head clearly thinks she has this power.

I suspect some of the clauses in the school policies about social media are illegal e.g. if they're trying to insert that parents talking to each other via Whatsapp is illegal.

Social media policies should be about not posting photos of children participating in school activities on public platforms e.g. twitter or facebook (i.e. safeguarding) rather than preventing parents TALKING which, I would argue is quite an important part of a safeguarding culture, which schools are supposed to have and Ofsted wants.

If you have a closed chat with only parents from the school on it, I do not see how in any non-Orwellian world that could be illegal. It's no different to meeting up at someone's house, no-one else can see it, it's just more accommodating of busy lives.

[Xiaoxiong]

Quick one for all the teachers out there and for you @Vebrithien - has anyone ever found a scheme of work for primary and year 7&8 PSHE that isn't completely captured? I have a meeting next week with our dep head who asked. I have all the guidance from the likes of transgender trend etc but they are not actually schemes of work and lesson materials.

@Vebrithien I've been reading your thread with mounting horror - I am gearing up for battle with our school (hoping it won't come to that) and I am furious for you and the other parents, this whole thing is so cult-like it's unbelievable. It reminds me of how cults threaten being cast out or disfellowshiped if you step out of line.

[SinnerBoy]

Well, it seems clear that they are failing in their duty to consult with parents, as well as abusing the clause about causing upset. I also assume that they have absolutely no legal right to prevent parents from communicating with each other.

The banned mother should show the advice to a solicitor.

[Vebrithien]

Fare thee well.

May we meet again, across the Sundering Seas.

Keep a tight hold of your jewellery, and may there always be a witch or wizard to guide you.

[Vebrithien]

I like it!

Currently, the school has not consulted parents and has attempted to prevent us sharing our views (with the school and with other parents).

[ScrollingLeaves]

@Princessglittery

@Vebrithien That guidance is actually quite helpful
“Schools will be required to consult parents on their relationships education policy and Government thinks it is right that parents can share their views and schools should reflect on them. Disruptive behaviour and intimidation are, however, clearly unacceptable and local authorities, alongside the Department for Education (DfE), will want to support schools facing such a situation.”

It is clear consulting parents is a key element.

‘right that parents can share their views and schools should reflect on them’
This is helpful for the ‘expelled’ parent.

Is this sentence also slightly ambiguous?
Could it perhaps mean not only that parents can share their views [ with the school], but that parents can share their views [ with other parents/other bodies]?

[Princessglittery]

@Vebrithien That guidance is actually quite helpful
“Schools will be required to consult parents on their relationships education policy and Government thinks it is right that parents can share their views and schools should reflect on them. Disruptive behaviour and intimidation are, however, clearly unacceptable and local authorities, alongside the Department for Education (DfE), will want to support schools facing such a situation.”

It is clear consulting parents is a key element.

[TWETMIRF]

One of my old teachers is in prison for sleeping with students. I'm sure he would have been very upset when everyone found out he's a predatory paedophile. Doesn't mean that he should have been left alone. He was head of safeguarding too...

[dimorphism]

@SinnerBoy

Vebrithien · Today 13:01

We think the school is treating us as a "disruptive group", which starts to explain their heavy handedness.

None of the grounds apply to any of your actions, as far as I can see. You've been polite and concise and conducted things verbally and via email, no disruption has occurred.

What do we mean by disruption?Despite the best efforts of local authorities and schools, in some cases parent concerns will not be entirely allayed, and external actors may press ahead with plans to disrupt the activities of schools to try to influence their teaching. We characterise this next level of concern as:

• activity by an individual or group which is disrupting the activities of school(s):
• upsetting children
• upsetting staff
• making it difficult for children or staff to get into school
• preventing children or staff getting into school
• loud protests during school hours that are disrupting teaching/activities of school
• public victimisation of teachers, parents or children in relation to this topic, such as through social media, WhatsApp groups or in-person harassment
• other activity by parents and/or external actors that prevent school from fulfilling duties and operating as normal

This activity is likely to be picked up by either local or national media, creating additional challenges for the school(s) involved.

Well it seems to me this means staff being upset only applies when - in addition to this and prior to this - external actors are trying to disrupt school activities, which @Vebrithien and her group are not doing. So it's extreme upset - could have been worded more clearly though.

Of course under that extremely poor wording some staff may interpret being 'upset' at all a reason why scrutiny can be stopped altogether. It clearly doesn't mean that, but maybe Dep Head's thinking is so disordered that's what she thinks. It's the TRA mindwarp of undermining sex-based safeguarding or sterilising children and making them lifelong medical patients with a high risk of incontinence is fine but saying you disagree is terrible and requires punishment. Upside down world.

If it was just any 'upset' - what about if a parent challenges a teacher marking a students work wrongly - misspelling a word or getting maths wrong? Will that 'upset' staff? It certainly upset my DD's teacher in year 6 when I pointed out her Maths marking was wrong.... (to be fair she did accept I was right and re-marked).

I think we're going to need court cases and class action lawsuits sometime soon in schools.

I am sure there are some staff in schools who will be 'upset' by safeguarding questions being asked too. If 'upsetting staff' was something that couldn't happen you couldn't have safeguarding in case it upset staff.

Completely mad how bad some government guidance is. Don't they have lawyers?

But what on earth is the Head doing letting the Dep Head get so out of control with wildly disordered thinking?

Good job you've been so polite and beyond reproach though, Vebrithien. The school is on very, very shaky legal, moral and safeguarding ground here.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

They fight dirty. They will put whatever spin on it they can to stop any scrutiny.

[Xiaoxiong]

The "disruptive group" stuff is obviously to deal with situations like these: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-66120447

But the onus is on the school to discuss the curriculum with parents and take their views into account, while complying with the law. And the law doesn't say that at primary level there has to be any teaching about sex at all.

[Xiaoxiong]

That's mad. There is a right not to be harassed but there is no right "not to be upset", especially if your bar of what upsets you involves denial of material reality and acceptance of a highly contentious and partisan political position.

[SinnerBoy]

Oh, that's more worrisome.

[Vebrithien]

We worry that they will use that we are upsetting the NB member of staff, and that children were upset hearing the banned parent talk about the teaching of the T in the school

[SinnerBoy]

Vebrithien · Today 13:01

We think the school is treating us as a "disruptive group", which starts to explain their heavy handedness.

None of the grounds apply to any of your actions, as far as I can see. You've been polite and concise and conducted things verbally and via email, no disruption has occurred.

What do we mean by disruption?Despite the best efforts of local authorities and schools, in some cases parent concerns will not be entirely allayed, and external actors may press ahead with plans to disrupt the activities of schools to try to influence their teaching. We characterise this next level of concern as:

• activity by an individual or group which is disrupting the activities of school(s):
• upsetting children
• upsetting staff
• making it difficult for children or staff to get into school
• preventing children or staff getting into school
• loud protests during school hours that are disrupting teaching/activities of school
• public victimisation of teachers, parents or children in relation to this topic, such as through social media, WhatsApp groups or in-person harassment
• other activity by parents and/or external actors that prevent school from fulfilling duties and operating as normal

This activity is likely to be picked up by either local or national media, creating additional challenges for the school(s) involved.

[Vebrithien]

I will catch up on the recommendations for writing to MPs later this evening.

Interestingly, I believe that the governors are now going to be aware

A year 4 parent, who is also the governors secretary, only found out last week that the book had been used with her child. She didn't know before what the book was about, having just seen the title in the message home, saying they had studied it.

She is in agreement that it is not appropriate.

She is also ready to add her name to a formal complaint.