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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Wings Over Scotland: The Grooming of Holyrood

256 replies

DerekFaker · 23/01/2023 09:19

Good, detailed article on Beth Douglas and associates (Jess Bradley).

wingsoverscotland.com/the-grooming-of-holyrood/

OP posts:
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Johnduttonsbuttocks · 24/01/2023 17:56

Man exerts will over vulnerable woman.

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picklemewalnuts · 24/01/2023 18:08

Purple and Warrior, I'm actually awed that MN pay that much attention to detail. I'm sorry you felt you needed to, Purple, but I'm so glad you shared that screenshot. What an awesome team, well done Hope.

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thecaseofthepurplecushion · 24/01/2023 18:09

picklemewalnuts · 24/01/2023 18:08

Purple and Warrior, I'm actually awed that MN pay that much attention to detail. I'm sorry you felt you needed to, Purple, but I'm so glad you shared that screenshot. What an awesome team, well done Hope.

This site really is a gem isn't it.

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PriOn1 · 24/01/2023 19:38

It’s a great pity if that section of such an important article has caused distress and also good to see Mumsnet has taken steps to help.

But the article cements the impression I’ve gained over time, that this awful ideology is being driven by sane, quietly effective, woman-hating FtM transitioners alongside a bunch of violent, perverted men. That politicians are in thrall to these men despite actually knowing them is probably the worst part.

Are these men really so persuasive when they want to be? Do they hide the sickness when they actually meet female politicians? Do Patrick Harvie and the like actually join in with the perversion, or is it some kind of sad admiration for something he’s too cowardly to embrace himself? It is beyond anything I can comprehend.

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Helleofabore · 24/01/2023 20:12

@RevStuartCampbell

For example, yesterday she was tweeting on dozens and dozens of threads about it, drawing a large amount of attention - the opposite of what she professes to want - even though I'd already replied to her saying my DMs were open and I was happy to discuss it in private.

Actually, that sounds like the behaviour of a distressed young person who feels like no one is listening and just rejecting a request to ‘forget’ her from the article.

I would expect acute distress in some people could very well result in this behaviour
that you describe. And why would someone discuss it in private if they have been already sent an email saying ‘no, we are not going to remove your name’ and that you are not going to change your mind?

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thecaseofthepurplecushion · 24/01/2023 20:21

Helleofabore · 24/01/2023 20:12

@RevStuartCampbell

For example, yesterday she was tweeting on dozens and dozens of threads about it, drawing a large amount of attention - the opposite of what she professes to want - even though I'd already replied to her saying my DMs were open and I was happy to discuss it in private.

Actually, that sounds like the behaviour of a distressed young person who feels like no one is listening and just rejecting a request to ‘forget’ her from the article.

I would expect acute distress in some people could very well result in this behaviour
that you describe. And why would someone discuss it in private if they have been already sent an email saying ‘no, we are not going to remove your name’ and that you are not going to change your mind?

Thank you. I was desperate. It probably wasn't the right decision and I ended up deleting the account later that night, but I was desperate.

It was also anonymous with no mention of my current name.

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AlisonDonut · 24/01/2023 20:27

Unfortunately this behaviour by Wings over Scotland just solidifies the idea of men being tone deaf to actual women's issues. The threats by these people are potentially really fucking dangerous and I'm so fucking angry that this still hasn't been rectified.

Men just don't get it.

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thecaseofthepurplecushion · 24/01/2023 20:30

AlisonDonut · 24/01/2023 20:27

Unfortunately this behaviour by Wings over Scotland just solidifies the idea of men being tone deaf to actual women's issues. The threats by these people are potentially really fucking dangerous and I'm so fucking angry that this still hasn't been rectified.

Men just don't get it.

They really don't. There are literal photos in that article of my abuser holding weapons and he still won't anon me?! If Beth has the gall to post it on a very public social media account then I am terrified of what Beth may be capable of now.

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Boiledbeetle · 24/01/2023 20:36

AlisonDonut · 24/01/2023 20:27

Unfortunately this behaviour by Wings over Scotland just solidifies the idea of men being tone deaf to actual women's issues. The threats by these people are potentially really fucking dangerous and I'm so fucking angry that this still hasn't been rectified.

Men just don't get it.

They truly don't get it. And i am so sick of all the live action proof of this that these men are happy to show us over the past few days if the objective they want enhances them or their standing in some way.I

The article writer @RevStuartCampbell if he refuses to change his article is no better than that Arsehole man Beth he writes about, that man with the decapitate Terfs sign and fucking Lloyd Russell moyles.

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FactsAreNotMean · 24/01/2023 20:46

This is horrible and I can actually see both sides. I understand the fear this has caused. But we've all seen how the TRAs behave - you definitely need "receipts" when dealing with anything related to them and the screenshots which have been included in the article are a very important part of the history; Beth is a man who has personally abused women in the worst way possible and yet has been instrumental in securing a law change which will make it incredibly easy for abusive men to gain access to vulnerable women.

His personal history as an abusive man is incredibly relevant in this context, and it's hard to give that history without proof. And RSC is right, just removing the name wouldn't help because those who are twisted enough to want to harrass purplecushion would just google key phrases and find her name anyway, and removing the name wouldn't make it anon from Beth, who obviously knows who it is.

Has any information been given which Beth wouldn't have already known?

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WarriorN · 24/01/2023 20:52

I do get that but I also get how it's re traumatising to know your image etc is there for all to peer at.

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ArabellaScott · 24/01/2023 21:08

His personal history as an abusive man is incredibly relevant in this context, and it's hard to give that history without proof

Using a survivor to provide 'proof' without their full and free consent is creating further trauma. It may even put that person at risk. It's unacceptable.

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OneMorePlant · 24/01/2023 21:20

PriOn1 · 24/01/2023 19:38

It’s a great pity if that section of such an important article has caused distress and also good to see Mumsnet has taken steps to help.

But the article cements the impression I’ve gained over time, that this awful ideology is being driven by sane, quietly effective, woman-hating FtM transitioners alongside a bunch of violent, perverted men. That politicians are in thrall to these men despite actually knowing them is probably the worst part.

Are these men really so persuasive when they want to be? Do they hide the sickness when they actually meet female politicians? Do Patrick Harvie and the like actually join in with the perversion, or is it some kind of sad admiration for something he’s too cowardly to embrace himself? It is beyond anything I can comprehend.

Those are all really good questions and I think it would be great that after 8 pages we could finally discus this.

Why are these people all in such positions that they are some kind of politician whisperers who are taken seriously when well established women from all over the world are reduced to "hysterics" and "hateful"?

Surely there is money behind this? From where?

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thecaseofthepurplecushion · 24/01/2023 21:22

@OneMorePlant as someone who was once in that world, tbh there wasn't really any money! Just very very very loud voices.

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FactsAreNotMean · 24/01/2023 21:30

ArabellaScott · 24/01/2023 21:08

His personal history as an abusive man is incredibly relevant in this context, and it's hard to give that history without proof

Using a survivor to provide 'proof' without their full and free consent is creating further trauma. It may even put that person at risk. It's unacceptable.

That isn't how anything online works though; you only have to see how often threads are lifted from here. Once it's online it's out there, and it's out there for anyone to see, copy and use. And based on what both sides are saying (on here) it is perfectly possible that RSC did try to contact purple.

But ignoring that, I am not seeing how anonymising it at this point would make a meaningful difference. It may make purple feel less vulnerable, but unless the entire section was removed it would not actually reduce the risk as anyone remotely inclined to could link the names. Any risk reduction would be an illusion.

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WarriorN · 24/01/2023 21:39

Why are these people all in such positions that they are some kind of politician whisperers who are taken seriously when well established women from all over the world are reduced to "hysterics" and "hateful"?

Personally I think some of it is about power play. Abusers love power.

Validation.

We all know how much money is in the charity sector for this; political head pats means it keeps flowing.

I know many lefties in education who lambast the tories while profiting from the self run business they set up under the tories that provides training to schools (which the LA used to do).

There's also a steady flow of similar types in the RSE and charity sector.

They need the government and it sounds like they particularly have had gov funding for trans related things for some time in Scotland.

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WarriorN · 24/01/2023 21:42

The politicians have fallen for it.

I believe that the snp in particular have done deals with the Scottish greens or something.

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thecaseofthepurplecushion · 24/01/2023 21:45

@FactsAreNotMean the fact is, I didn't consent to be in the article. Those tweets (and the twitter) were deleted last year. I had no idea about the crowdfunder or it's whereabouts.

There is personal, private information about me online where I did not want it, containing two of the most traumatic moments of my life: a highly abusive relationship, and a really terrible miscarriage. As the person that holds those experiences and trauma, it is up to me if they end up in an article. Not him, me. Because it's my life, and I'm not a pawn or to be used.

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mrshoho · 24/01/2023 21:48

OneMorePlant · 24/01/2023 21:20

Those are all really good questions and I think it would be great that after 8 pages we could finally discus this.

Why are these people all in such positions that they are some kind of politician whisperers who are taken seriously when well established women from all over the world are reduced to "hysterics" and "hateful"?

Surely there is money behind this? From where?

Very good questions. That so many politicians are intertwined with such seedy groups with power to influence policy making.

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ditalini · 24/01/2023 21:51

WarriorN · 24/01/2023 21:42

The politicians have fallen for it.

I believe that the snp in particular have done deals with the Scottish greens or something.

Yep. The Scottish Greens are the DUP of the Scottish Parliament, but instead of a billion for Northern Ireland they got backing for their batshit rainbow washing reforms plus a ragbag of generally useless "green" initiatives.

To be fair, the Scottish Parliament was set up to require this sort of deal making, but the defacto 2 issue independence/union split has messed everything up.

That plus Labour and Libdems also being convinced this is the way to win hearts and minds.

Scottish politics doesn't seem to have much of a talent pool to draw from tbh.

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stillsmilingtoday · 24/01/2023 23:35

I would like to say a big thank you to Rev Campbell for an interesting and thoroughly researched article. It’s hugely important to be shining a light on these issues.

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stealtheatingtunnocks · 25/01/2023 10:21

I tell you what is frustrating - the other author of this piece is Glinner who was also abused online and also got a great deal of support, and continues to get emotional and financial support, from the women on here.

it is not unreasonable to redact the name of a person who possible is impacted by your article, Rev

you are assuming none of us have noticed the lacks in the article. I know there is more, and darker stuff about this sorry affair and I expect many of us are reading this also do. If you want leads or corroboration you should realise that MN is where women with info about the nasty stuff at Holyrood all land up.

you two both need the help of the women hereGlinner, frankly, you owe us. Take her details out the article, it would be the compassionate thing to do ans on here compassion is currency.

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ArabellaScott · 25/01/2023 10:26

Yes, tunnocks.

There is a wealth of information available via women here, who have long memories, that we are largely happy to share. But that depends on trusting the person disseminating it.

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thecaseofthepurplecushion · 25/01/2023 11:11

Police can’t help as I didn’t report the abuse at the time. I have now been put in a position where I may have to go through the lengthly reporting process (which may not come to anything), and retraumatise myself because this guy has decided to name me. MN knows how horrible the process is to report.

I never wanted this. It took me so long to rebuild my life. I really hope the voices of people here can convince him to take me out but I am losing hope.

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ArabellaScott · 25/01/2023 12:10

Have you considered Victim Support, purple? They ought to be able to suggest options for you.

www.victimsupport.org.uk/

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