Wings Over Scotland: The Grooming of Holyrood

[DerekFaker]

Good, detailed article on Beth Douglas and associates (Jess Bradley).

wingsoverscotland.com/the-grooming-of-holyrood/

I would never try to force someone to do anything they didn't want to, but it'd you are thinking off wether to give a police statement or not here's my thoughts

I know you don't want to....But...maybe look at this as the universes way of saying this isn't going away so you might as well deal with it.

I spent decades lying awake at night going over everything. Then one day got up got dressed and walked into the police station. I'm not sure what was so different about that day, but I'd just had enough.

Through no fault of your own this has come crashing back into your life. So as the saying goes "there's no time like the present". Maybe consider that if you are ever thinking about getting it officially on the record to the Police it might as well be now. You even have a perfectly good reason to the inevitable question of why report now? To which your answer is because I've got no bloody choice I've been outed.

Id use the anger and the stress and worry this has brought to the surface and go talk to the police and give a statement. Then it's done, and what will be will be. Then you can start married life knowingyou've done what you can about the traumatic bit in your youth.

Boiled x

💐

@thecaseofthepurplecushion

I don't want to make you feel pressured to report the abuse, it is 100% your choice. I just want to say that a close friend reported her rape 10 years later (I gave a statement to the police) and although nothing came of it in terms of charging him, I know it really helped her achieve the closure she needed to move on. I have never reported mine though because I have never wanted to, so I would never judge what individual women need to do.

I'm wondering if Victim Support has a way of having someone support you if you choose to take that route.

I hadn’t considered victim support no. Thank you, I’ll look into them.

I would report if I knew that the system would help but I know so many survivors who have been burned from reporting. I also know that often the most dangerous time for a survivor is after they leave. I have also built a life without this hanging over me and I’m scared it will ruin the solace I have created for myself.

Much to think about.

It's completely understandable that this has stirred everything up.

If it helps, I think the 'most dangerous time' is usually the immediate aftermath.

But there's always emotional support here, and yes, if Victim Support aren't able to help themselves they also signpost to other sources.

I expect that a certain amount of lingering alertness is something that survivors often carry. But perhaps worth reassuring yourself of what you've built, all the distance you've covered since then, and who there is around you to support and help and protect you. That includes family, friends, the police, other services, women here. Take heart.

I think this is an important read for feminists, transgender individuals and politicians, as well as ordinary folk trying to get their heads around trans issues. It highlights some of the dark underpinnings of the hard trans movement, it’s influences on politicians and the nasty forces that have shut down debate and cancelled those who have concerns on the impact of self identified gender on women’s equality and safe spaces. The standing ovation for Beth in Holyrood in December is worth a watch.

V Good points in your post stealthtunnock.

Hope you're ok purple. excellent advice from all above, victim support could be a useful place to turn to.

I respect both Glinner and The Rev for their bravery to speak out. Both have been consistent ans both have been penalised for that. And I notice neither have commented on this thread recently or listened to purple.

in this instance they are taking women’s knowledge and expeience for their own sites ,while also dismissing women’s advice, requests and trauma. And what I notice from both those things is that these two men are making money from us while not listening. Not one woman has said that purple is unreasaonble. If this was AIBU she’d get 100%, which is rare

respect is like interest rates, it can go up and down. The Scottish government didn’t listen to women and look at what the consequences are. You’d think two men writing “ans the moral of the tale is…” might read their own work and accommodate purple’s reasonable request.

take purple’s details off the article, she asked you nicely, it’s the compassionate thing to do and you need womens co operation - I have corroborated information on PB and ACH that I have sat on for years and that you would wrestle each other for but there isn’t a fucking chance I’d give it you on what I’ve seen unfold on this thread.

If I’m not alone in that then you are potentially having a problem, you both need what women on here know and as this is anonymous you don’t know who you are pissing off.

cop on, lads, take this woman’s name off your work. It would be kind. It’s what a woman would do.

👆

@RevStuartCampbell

@Glinner

'when I'm dragged out of the women's toilets because I just want to pee...'

The persecution complex is astonishing. Reminds me of the Harry Enfield character Angry Frank - and yes, I'm going to laugh:

Yep. Much respect for both of those writers. I appreciate their bravery, honesty and persistence.

I really think that you should remove this woman's name and image, as a mark of respect, if nothing else.

Forgot to add: thank you to those writers, and to the OP for sharing. Chilling, awful stuff.

Well, that'll learn me not to post without reading the full thread. And for the first time ever too. I'm so sorry you're so distressed by this, @thecaseofthepurplecushion. Rev, redact her details. You have actually named her in this thread too! Your article is worthless if you are ignoring the distressed requests of an abuse survivor.

He's a misogynist who's repeatedly stated he's very antifeminist, has a known inability to admit he's wrong (see here) threw sectarian abuse at a journalist and is generally a very nasty man.

bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/02/18/stuart-campbell-is-a-disgrace-that-has-soiled-our-movement/

Why had Glinner done this with him?

oh this feels like another schism brewing and I am sure that no one needs that in Feminsim

Why had Glinner done this with him?

I don’t think that article re Campbell is strong evidence for anything. There is one central accusation which is not contextualised so I’ve no idea how bad it really is. And there is an opinion I disapprove of, but so fucking what. I personally have loads of opinions which any right thinking person would disapprove of.

There doesn’t have to be a “schism” if people don’t feel compelled to perform the disapproval dance. I’d suggest not bothering with disapproval displays at the invitation of some random username with a half-baked link.

I don’t agree with RSC’s decision not to blur the name and photo on this article, and have said so already as have numerous others here, but it’s still a very important article. It’s not like TRAs denounce even rapists and murderers among their number, (unless the press are paying attention.) There’s no need to do denunciations and excommunications on request from anonymous shit stirrers.

I imagine Glinner and Campbell teamed up because the issue is more important than Campbell’s personal failings.

I'm not sure if I am missing something here... But Rev Campbell seems to be saying he will not send identifying details of an abuse victim to an unverified email... And then Purple is saying that her face is on the email (which should be enough verification), and if he won't send those details to the email, then at least send the details to another (possibly unverifiable) email that is her mother's?

Im just noticing something potentially a bit odd, that hasn't been commented on as of yet...

Im not sure what details would be sent, or even why. But at least Rev is syspicious enough that hopefully this survivors current details will not be sent to anyone.

........

I am also unclear what new information the article could include that would help identify her in her new life. Surely it is all information that her abuser ready knew.

Either way, as long as her current name and location are not shared with anyone, that seems to be the most important thing.

Please note I am not trying to deteact from the triggering and stress this would have caused, if all is as appears to be... I am just slightly perplexed.

I think most of the women on here always keep in mind the pitfalls of anonymous accounts, Kali.

I can't see what anyone could/would send that would be helpful in any way.

If there is ever the chance of distressing a victim, and the action needed has no real impact - blurring a face/removing a name makes no real difference to this piece - then I would always err on the side of caution.

That's unrelated to posts on here, in fact, they really make no difference in this case.

It's always a bind. For many very good reasons, women don't want to share their stories. Yet that's often what is needed to bring abusers to account. There's no solution, only half-solutions. For example: anonymising accounts.

What exact context do you need for the following?

He decided to attack a journalist who he disagreed with for one reason by bringing up the fact the journalist had written (with his daughter's consent) about his daughter being the victim of a sexual offence, saying he "weaponised his daughter's sexual assault", and throwing utterly bizarre sectarian abuse into it. (This at a time when he was spending a lot of time generally arguing that victims of sexual offences were making it up, shortly before defending those who sought to identify them despite court-mandated anonymity.)

Or was it the part where he chooses to host racist comments at his political opponents? Attacks a teenage girl for her appearance?

There's also the time he spent an exorbitant amount of resources attempting to sue a lesbian politician for condemning homophobic tone of a joke he made. (He lost.)

He's not at risk of schism from Glinner, because, well, the two of them have exceptionally similar MOs.

What exact context do you need for the following [light-on-quotes list of contextless accusations]

oh ffs did you write the article? You aren't a credible narrator; vague but huffy and accusatory writing like this and like the article is the mark of someone who's trying to twist the facts to their narrative, and isn't good at it. And even if you were a credible narrator, I'm still not playing this stupid game.

A journalist tweeting an article attacking that journalist, and pointing out the reasons why the article is unfair are not contextless.

I didn't write the Bella piece, but nothing I said was vague, nor contextless. I took you at face value, that you actually were interested in seeing examples of why people dislike Wings (who is utterly toxic)

Apologies for not specifying I was referring to his defence of Craig Murray, who was imprisoned for seeking to identify complainants of sexual assault despite court-mandated anonymity, or making it clear. (I could provide many other links to other defences -- or to the judgement noting in Murray's own words he was seeking to identify them despite the order.)

That said -- the article was not contextless there. In fact it specifically linked to contest: "The second piece of political context for the Wings phenomenon is the backlash against women’s rights. If his blog is now a focal point for the “trans debate” (sic), the bigotry and intolerance that pre-dates this is a hatred of feminist thinking – a worldview shared by Craig Murray (see for example Another Vicious Ugly-Souled Feminist – Thoughts on Feminism) and reiterated by the narrative of The Salmond Witches."

I can provide further context in the ground of this twitter thread by a different journalist outlining the issues.

But here's the point. None of the accusations against Campbell are vague. These are specific complaints, which are not particularly disputable. The context here is clear. (I feel his actions in this thread pretty much demonstrate what kind of a person he is, adding to the point.) You asked someone else why they wouldn't read something Wings wrote.

I offered an explanation. You might still want to enjoy his stuff despite his many clear flaws, toxicity, and repeated lack fo thought for survivors. But I'm not being vague here in the slightest.

I noticed that Wings recently tweeted indicating further info on "Beth" is coming

Oh my god. I cannot believe that this who has been driving policy in Scotland.

I wonder what Nicola will think of Beth's 'woman' status if this is credible?

Warning Please everyone in this discussion be aware that the male in question “Beth”’is a master at infiltrating groups of women with made up stories of abuse, getting personal information and using it to destroy tge group, humiliate women and get personal ID. So be warned - dont get into private messaging with anyone posting about “Beth” if you don’t personally know them in real life