Oxford union official, Ellie Greaves, sorry for ‘hurting trans people’Oxford union official, Ellie Greaves, sorry for ‘hurting trans people’

[Igneococcus]

Bloody depressing read:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3a918a08-70d8-11ed-a188-d2cb771901d6?shareToken=aeb345cd0257014019db91fd84eccbda

I feel very sorry for her. She clearly knows what's what and is understandably frightened of being subject to a campaign of harassment by the usual extremists.

A word of caution to Ellie - many of us here went and "educated" ourselves. Once you do that there really is no going back from the heavy heights that leads to

Poor kid. She was right, of course. Her new statement reads like something from a hostage.

Reminds me of that airman that was caught in Iraq and was paraded on tv saying how great saddam was

Oh god, would these people not just shut the hell up? Will they disappear into a puff of smoke if someone dares to say, ‘Oh ffs, for once this is not about you?’

Fucking attention vampires.

The union is replacing its women’s officer with a liberation and equalities representative from next year.

I like to think I'm not completely stupid. But whereas the role of a women's officer is perfectly clear, I really don't know what a liberation and equalities representative would do? Is it me? Am I just old?

Ah hang on....

Oxford Student Union said of changes to the women’s officer position: “The role has not been replaced but augmented to include more underrepresented and marginalised communities who currently do not have sufficient representation.”

So watering down the focus on women. Got you.

I like to think I'm not completely stupid. But whereas the role of a women's officer is perfectly clear, I really don't know what a liberation and equalities representative would do?

Be a man probably.

Her original statements were clear.

Her reply - bio-essentialist narrow minded narrative of what a woman is? Apologise for the hurt caused, I need educating?

I can only imagine how much pressure she was under to retract her strongly held views.

I bet this apology won't be enough for the gender cultists. As we've seen with others, it's never enough, and any hint she might be thinking about issues that only or largely affect women will be severely punished.

I somehow see here trapped in a darkened room with an Angkeoise lamp aimed at her face, and a sequence of attackers drumming their beliefs at her.
The language she uses, though, suggests that she may be signalling she does not entirely go along with the message. It's a bit extreme.

Oh, she knows:

the prioritisation of women over minorities. I cannot apologise enough for the damage and hurt I have caused the trans community.”
She knows that the complaint is not that women are being prioritised over minorities in the sense of people with disabilities, or with EAL, or refugees, or members of faith groups. Ellie Greaves knows perfectly well that she has to back down and grovel before the TRAs, else they will make her life a misery for the rest of her student days, and potentially influence her employment prospects by defaming her.

I don't blame her. How old is she - 22?

Hold on to what you know to be true, Ellie. You are not alone.

She’s hurt them with what, her talk of issues that affect biological women? I’m guessing the logic is that not everyone who has PCOS “is” a women? Is that it?
We need a word for the people formerly known as women. Although even then I’m sure centring them would be unacceptable.

There is already a Vice President of Welfare and Equal Opportunities. www.oxfordsu.org/representation/sabbatical-officers/vpweo/

The first project listed on her page is about a new definition of transphobia. One element of transphobia is claiming that there is a conflict of rights. These kids must be wilfully blind not to see it.

They attempt to debunk the idea of a conflict by talking about toilets. I suspect this reflects the limit of their experience and hence interest. Rape crisis, prisons, DV shelters? Of no interest to these Oxford students. Intersectionality my arse.

She sounds like a clever, thoughtful and motivated woman

hate to break it to the people demanding she ‘educate’ herself but shes exactly the sort of women you DONT want to be educated

over the next few years she’ll research more and then she’ll be one of the women that brings this to its knees

Yet again women's representation watered down or removed to accommodate or 'include' men.

Why can't they keep the women's officer then have a separate one for the whiny narcs with their fake oppression who apparently feel 'unsafe' around women who won't obey?

Oh wow - poor woman. She must have been under intolerable pressure and whoever it was who mentioned that the letter reads like hostage statement was absolutely right.

Good luck Ellie! Will wait to hear from you in a few years time once you've educated yourself.
Till then chin up and keep your head below the parapet.

"I cannot apologise enough for the damage and hurt I have caused the trans community."

Nailed it, right there. No one ever can. However much you abase yourself, whatever you say or do to repent, it will never be enough.

It really does read like something out of Stalin's Russia or Mao's China, doesn't it? People being "re-educated" and forced to apologise. I wonder what pressure they put her under to come up with such a grovelling apology.

The first project listed on her page is about a new definition of transphobia.

Yeah, good luck with that. It has nearly destroyed the Liberal Democrats

liberalvoiceforwomen.org/blog/gva-advice

”She said last month: “I really hope the issues I’ve been talking about this year don’t fall into the background. I think there’s a risk that the removal of [the post] will send the message that ‘sexism is solved’, when it really isn’t.”

“We’re not where we need to be in terms of women’s representation and I think there’s a risk of moves to tackle sexual violence being left behind. There’s a reason the role has been around for so long. I will continue to prioritise women.”

and

“Greaves also told the student newspaper Cherwell that “provision for conditions such as endometriosis and polycystic ovary syndrome are not accommodated in the way I would like to see”.

And people complained?

So she made an apology about harm to trans people???

They got upset because her words didn’t centre them.

“The comments I made in the article contribute to a bio-essentialist, narrow-minded narrative of what being a woman is, including the prioritisation of women over minorities. I cannot apologise enough for the damage and hurt I have caused the trans community.”

Crikey! They really did get upset because she was doing her job and focusing on women. (She seemed to not be saying female even, she used the words women which could have been said to be open to ‘all’ women).

They have now started to really erase the unique needs of females and adopt that intersectional feminist thought that feminists fought for everyone not just female people.

So now Women’s Officer roles are being removed, at a time when women’s safety on campus is still dire. When rape is so hard to prosecute, when porn has put so many women in peril, when women’s sexual boundaries are also very low and lesbians are told they should do penis, when drug culture is prevalent and spiking is still an issue ….. but women’s concerns are to be rolled into a generic mash despite it being females who are the primary targets.

It is so clear that those doing this do believe that sexism is no longer an issue. Or that genderism is the same as sexism, and so sexism as a stand alone is to be ignored as it is transphobic.

It is a very clear indication that this was the plan all along and that the next phase is now well into play. That is to remove any service, role, or anything that was set up for the needs of female people only.

In other words to make sure gender is prioritised every time and to deprioritise sex so it can be considered meaningless. Fuck that!

I am very sad for Ellie, she sounds like she was a great woman for the role!

However, she did have support!

”Sharon Udott, president of the Oxford Feminist Society, said: “It’s incredibly important to have a women-focused role in 2022. To say that it is redundant in this day and age is an incredibly privileged position to hold. From violence against women to advocating for increased support and funding for women’s health, these issues don’t change when the year does.” “

I wonder whether Sharon believes that sex is immutable and that feminism is for all female people? Or if she is an intersectional feminist and by ‘women’ she includes male people.

the position prioritised one protected group over others

Funny how this is a-ok so long as the prioritised group is trans.

They always seem to. Captured certainly.

Just so fucking depressing.

I hate the term bio-essentialism. Especially when it’s used to dismiss the very real role that our biology does play in our lives and our social experiences.

It’s a gross caricature of the position too.

Telling a woman that she cannot possibly centre the biologically- mediated experiences of female humans is awful. The whole argument about ‘intersectionality’ being made there means that no one is ever allowed to think about sex or race or disability at all. It’s an incredibly effective way of preventing any critical engagement.

It hasn't take long to go from 'you have to include us' to 'you need to fuck off talking about any single thing that doesn't centre us entirely, or else'.

It's disgusting how many people go along with it too. I don't mean Ellie, she's just a kid. I mean all the adults at Oxford uni.

Watching women's rights gleefully destroyed, their safety deliberately put at risk and listening to the absolutely chilling words of one of their students, petrified into talking like a hostage, should make them ashamed. Their heads should hang so low, they scrape the floor.

How can wanting a women's officer be hurtful to the trans communiuty? HOW??? FFS. I am furious. I was at Oxford a few decades ago and if we have equality there now it is short lived, not at all established and very fragile indeed. If they need an inclusivity officer, by all means, appoint one, but not - never - at the expense of a women;s officer. I am really angry about this. And as PP said, that grovelling statement sounds like someone who has been harangued and bullied. It makes no fucking sense at all. She hasn't argued for anything which in any way sidelines trans issues.