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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Appeal Tribunal hearing Thread 19

738 replies

ickky · 26/09/2022 17:24

Allison Bailey has tweeted her intention to appeal the Stonewall decision.

twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1572133035335716865

The Tribunal started on 25th April, witness testimony concluded on the 26th May. Closing arguments for council was on the 20th June.

There was also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/allison-bailey-vs-stonewall-and-garden

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC )
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = Judge Goodman, Mr M. Reuby and Ms Darmas

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?
Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2
Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3
Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4
Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5
Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6
Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7
Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8
Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9
Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10
Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11
Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12
Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13
Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14
Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15
Thread 16 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557036-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-16
Thread 17 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4561850-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-17
Thread 18 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4574654-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-18

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Allison Bailey's Witness Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf
Supplementary Statement
allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/C-Supplementary-Witness-Statement.pdf
Closing Statement
allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CLOSING-SUBMISSIONS-FINAL.pdf

The Reserved Judgement (forth one down)

www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions/ms-a-bailey-v-stonewall-equality-ltd-and-others-2202172-slash-2020

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
IBelieveInFerries · 14/05/2024 13:30

My employment law is sketchy. If the EAT find in AB's favour, does the case get bounced back to employment tribunal?

WookeyHole · 14/05/2024 13:35

Ooof. I wish I still had all of the brains cells middle age is robbing me of.

Thank you for the explanations. I've copied a bit of TT; please can someone explain this section a bit more? I think it follows the great explanations above, I'm interested to understand it further.

Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Appeal Tribunal hearing Thread 19
yourhairiswinterfire · 14/05/2024 13:40

Pyjamagame · 14/05/2024 13:25

I heard that there was enough evidence in the tribunal's writing to show that Stonewall had caused Allison to be discriminated against, even thought they didn't conclude this in the findings ,and that Ben is using this and defining the definitions of the terms to prove this is so.

Allison tweeted this a couple of days ago:

'The Employment Tribunal agreed at paragraph 368 of its judgment that it was at least “certainly one reading” of these words to consider them as a threat from Stonewall – if chambers didn’t get rid of me, Stonewall would end its relationship with Garden Court. The Tribunal also described Stonewall’s alternative explanation as “implausible”.

The Tribunal also concluded at paragraph 377 that, but for the Stonewall complaint, I would not have been discriminated against by Garden Court in its decision to uphold complaints against me: in fact, when Stonewall sent in its complaint, I had (although I did not know it at the time) already been investigated, and the outcome of that investigation was that no further action should be taken against me. But, upon receiving Stonewall’s complaint, Garden Court abandoned this conclusion, extended its investigation, and went on to conclude against me.

My case has always been that Stonewall’s action was unlawful under s.111 EqA 2010, because it constituted Stonewall “instructing, causing or inducing” Garden Court’s unlawful discrimination against me. But although the tribunal upheld my claims against Garden Court Chambers for those acts of discrimination, it did not uphold the claims against Stonewall under s.111.

We say this was an error of law: the employment tribunal made the finding (at para 377) that, but for Stonewall’s complaint, the discriminatory investigation outcome would never have been reached. We say therefore that the Tribunal ought to have concluded that Stonewall induced, caused or influenced Garden Court’s unlawful conduct, thus establishing unlawful conduct on the part of Stonewall by making its complaint. This is the heart of the appeal to be heard this week.'

https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1789741069007036631

https://twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1789741069007036631

Karensalright · 14/05/2024 13:58

I have had to read Bens submissions several times.

I think Ben is saying that the normal meaning of inducement within the EQA is that there has to be a plan in mind, an intended outcome, which would be hard to prove as it goes in to what someone might be thinking.

To cause something to happen does not require any plan known or otherwise.

So Ben is saying that the ET Judge narrowed the meaning of S111 beyond what the Act was intended for, thus letting SW off the hook, which is an incorrect approach in law.

I think he has three other approaches as well….

My head hurts!!!

Hopefully the final judgement will clarify this.

The quote from Alison as above makes the reason for the Appeal clear.

Pretty important as Alison has said this Will if she wins put a full stop to SW and others sneaking around causing people to be harassed and sacked then standing back “nowt to do with me”

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 14/05/2024 13:59

The lights are back on and people are filing back into court.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 14/05/2024 13:59

Lights and a bit of noise but not started yet.

GoodHeavens99 · 14/05/2024 14:00

I'm enjoying when the camera moving hither and thither, to focus on Ben, and the Judge.

Is that automatic?

GCITC · 14/05/2024 14:02

I accidentally logged myself out and now I'm not waiting for the conference host to join again.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 14/05/2024 14:02

Hither and thither Grin It was a bit early years of MTV for me!

ickky · 14/05/2024 14:03

😂

OP posts:
GCITC · 14/05/2024 14:06

Do you have a link to the submission Karens

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 14/05/2024 14:07

I'm getting quite stressed about people in the lobby. Are you being admitted?

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 14/05/2024 14:08

I see the number of observers is gradually ticking up.

GCITC · 14/05/2024 14:10

I'm in!

The closed captions are helping me focus. Pleasantly surprised at how accurate they are.

Karensalright · 14/05/2024 14:12

@GCITC no, sorry I meant his oral submissions.

Karensalright · 14/05/2024 14:15

@IBelieveInFerries I just checked with my husband who is a lawyer. If Alison wins then the Appeals judge can either issue a new ruling and consider awards or refer it back down to the original tribunal directing them to, amend their judgement and consider an award.

Karensalright · 14/05/2024 14:20

Just thinking if Alison wins, could that open the gates for people to include an any one who causes a person to be harassed by their employer, such as in the Meade case?

That would have a brilliant effect on vexatious behaviour of TRA’s. Anyone have any thoughts?

ickky · 14/05/2024 14:21

I don't know, but would be great and give people pause before sticking in the knife.

OP posts:
IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 14/05/2024 14:24

Karensalright · 14/05/2024 14:20

Just thinking if Alison wins, could that open the gates for people to include an any one who causes a person to be harassed by their employer, such as in the Meade case?

That would have a brilliant effect on vexatious behaviour of TRA’s. Anyone have any thoughts?

Ben has just been setting out that there needs to be a relationship between the employer and the third party so it can't just be anyone who makes comments.

GoodHeavens99 · 14/05/2024 14:25

ickky · 14/05/2024 14:21

I don't know, but would be great and give people pause before sticking in the knife.

How many NB people have been the instigators of most of these tribunals?
Roz Adams
Rachel Meade
Denise Fahmy

I know there are others, i just can't think of them off the top of my head.

ickky · 14/05/2024 14:28

I am loving the incorrect captions. 😂

OP posts:
Karensalright · 14/05/2024 14:29

@IdisagreeMrHochhauser thanks, would have been a “thrilling” effect

ickky · 14/05/2024 14:31

BC finished with his submissions

OP posts:
GCITC · 14/05/2024 14:34

According to the captions, the lawyer for Stonewall is Miss Oman Ballet Grin

IdisagreeMrHochhauser · 14/05/2024 14:34

Stonewall arguing that Ben is trying to reargue the facts so the appeal has no merit.