Single-sex lavatories to be mandatory in all new public buildings

[ChristinaXYZ]

I really like the phrase “forced sharing” - I think we should use it more often as it sums up the lack of consent in shared facilities - unlike the neutral sounding 'gender neutral' .

Anyway, good news - I think this is building something that was initially announced by Robert Jenrick last year but got a bit lost after his demotion:

"New office buildings, schools, hospitals and entertainment venues must have separate male and female lavatories, ministers will declare this week, in a move to rein in the “forced sharing” of gender-neutral facilities.

The Telegraph understands that the Government will formally announce that it is acting to prevent non-residential buildings from being built solely with “universal” lavatories. The move will involve changes to building regulations and planning guidance.

The plans, being spearheaded by Kemi Badenoch, the equalities minister, were quietly approved by ministers last month after Mrs Badenoch was warned that some children were avoiding using lavatories at school because they only had access to gender-neutral facilities.

Mrs Badenoch has insisted that it is both legal and “important” to provide single-sex spaces for men and women."

If we could replace Boris with Kemi I'd be a very happy woman.

read more

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/02/single-sex-lavatories-mandatory-new-public-buildings - Telegraph has excelled itself with coverage this last week or so.

@ChristinaXYZ

I just asked someone on the Mick Lynch thread who said that the Tories were too right wing, what they thought about Labour and Lib Dem's policies on single sex toilets.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4575051-mick-lynch

She said that she is in favour of single sex toilets and is thinking of voting for the Green party.

She did not realise that the Greens are even worse.

When are the Tories going to play their trump card?

Good to go back to the sensible and common sense single sex toilets, but it won't stop [transwomen] or even just perverts who will say they identify as whatever.

Establishing the social norm that women have a right to their own spaces does in fact do quite a lot to stop perverts who want to invade those spaces... the perverts have got bold lately because the social norm has been eroded.

I have recently had to implement single user gender neutral toilets in a building because I was instructed to by company (public sector) policy.

Does this mean that those type (single room, floor to ceiling walls, proper door and hand wash contained within) will no longer be permitted or just that we have to provide single sex as well? Because it's going to be quite easy to reverse if it's "as well" but will be almost impossible if it's "only single sex allowed"...

That's really depressing @ILoveAllRainbowsx (and thanks for the link). I also don't get why people cannot see the link between Labour's economic irresponsibility in their last term and the Tories' austerity budgets of the 2010 parliament. (though the Tories are messing the economy up as much as Labour at the moment).

I think people say they won't vote Tory because they think it makes them a good person or something - yet when you think of the antisemitism and misogyny that the Labour Party has shown ideologically why would any one thing voting Labour makes you on the side of the angels. Most people are way behind what is happening in real time. I've voted Labour many times but I would be embarrassed to do so this time.

I have always been a floating voter - listen to both sides, have family and friends on both sides. I know, because of this, that most Conservatives do not think 'we're ok so stuff the poor' - they genuinely think the best way to help everyone is a free market. And most people are free market enough when it comes to their own household income and out goings whatever they vote. There is a lot of hypocrisy on the left and most on the left are too blind to see.

I will vote for the Tories because of women's rights, free speech, the state of universities, RSE in schools and because they do not suffer from the poverty of low expectations and because eventually someone will have to sort the economy and only a Tory will.

Eventually the Tories who are not nasty but tend to be weak and lazy (less so the women Tories) will be useless even at the economy and will have to go. I'd like the Labour Party back by then please!

Interesting response from PP. I can't tell someone's sexual preference on sight (nor do I care to) but 99% of the time I'm going to know their sex on first glance. So silly to pretend humans can't read someone's sex without looking at their genitals 🙄

I'm fed up of the forced sharing. Single sex spaces should mean that. I was talking to friends of mine about the destruction of single sex services whilst sitting in a nice restaurant in rural France last week. My female friend couldn't believe what she was hearing. Her male partner backed me up, he's been following the unfolding scandal too She said "Well that wouldn't happen here in France". I told her she was most definitely wrong and suggested she visit the loo - on the premises we were eating in: they offered two identical self contained toilets, one for men only and the other? Gender neutral and disabled... gotta make sure those men are catered for, eh? Naturally, I self identified and chose the cleanest.

I don't think enough tory voters will be put off, not by a longshot. The lifelong tory voters won't be so easily put off.

Dont be too sure about that, a week is a long time in politics and Johnson seems to have survived the byelection defeats. Even so I doubt he will lead the Tories in 12 months time, also Starmer has got to do a lot more to win an outright majority.

Forced sharing is a great way to put it.

Two, you have no idea on who is treats and who is not. The amounting my lesbian gfs that get challenged is just despicable. But hey….

Well, according to you, lesbians can be male, which is why they're challenged.

I see what you did there, achilles ;o) Agreed - Blo Jo should swap Downing Street for Baker Street.

It's good there will be UK policy to protect women and girls in future public buildings. This can set an international precedent. I was in a top Uni when the gender neutral loos were brought in. I was all for gender free ideology until l had to pee in an underground loo stall with 2 hormonal guys on either side of me. I didn't feel safe. There was a physicality to them and an interest in me, watching and listening, which was scary. I got out asap and did not return. There is a big gap between the, let's all be the same, idea, to the reality of how vulnerable women and girls can be when unprotected. Protect Women and Girls!

Yep, your horrible experience says it all. You weren't assualted but these loos allowed male strangers to get some kind of kick out of you being in there, in a vulnerable state behind a closed door, you were ultimately in the weaker state against them. That just wouldn't happen in a female loom

Why women are supporting this and happy for this to potentially happen to them, young girls and fellow women is utterly beyond me.

@TheBiologyStupid

Yes! Someone got me. 😂

Those young women want to impress men, and don’t mind throwing other women to the wolves.

I’m amazed how similar this is to the girls I was at school with, many decades ago, who used to say all their friends were boys — so much more interesting than girls etc. Except back then, they were talking in the safety of the girls’ toilets!

Do the more aggressive toilet obsessed mumsnet contributors ever travel by train , I wonder?

how do you cope?

I guess planes are also out of the question… now I see why they say “travel broadens the mind”

@antifascist

Trains don’t just have urinals sitting there in view of the carriage, do they?

Use toilets before taking train, don't drink. Thos train toilets are vile anyway.

It’s just so disingenuous. A train has CCTV (and still there are sexual assaults on trains all the time) and usually staff.

This is about what happens when a lone woman needs the toilet in a car park on some dusty highway to nowhere, and she walks in to the bathroom and there are three blokes having a piss and a chat. Is she unreasonable to think that arrangement has not been made with her safety in mind?

But airplane toilet doors are in full view of passengers and staff. So risk of anything happening is small. Toilets are single occupancy.

And can I say it is really annoying how you belittle womens objections to forced sharing of toilet facilities.

Quite. Some people have no idea, do they.

Keep swimming pools out the question. Gender neutral changing villages make life much easier for parents with opposite sexed children.

There must be 100s of threads on here about 8 year olds being expected to get changed in changing rooms that their parent can't access. Also the risk to boys from predatory adult men.

Sometimes it can be very unpleasant- I've had a bloke smirk at me when he left the loo. Got in there and he had wanked all over the place.

My town had two single use public toilets next to each other - one male, one female. Council (not unreasonably) decided to make them unisex as there were always queues for the womens.

I used it once - the sanitary bin had been kicked over and bloody sanitary products were everywhere.

Now there's no queues as women don't use it unless they are really desperate.

Those aren’t gender neutral facilities are they?