Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 18

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April, witness testimony concluded on the 26th May. Closing arguments for council was on the 20th June.

There was also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC )
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case

Panel = Judge Goodman, Mr M. Reuby and Ms Darmas

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Thread 16 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557036-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-16

Thread 17 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4561850-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-17

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)
Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Allison Bailey's

Witness Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf

Supplementary Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/C-Supplementary-Witness-Statement.pdf

Closing Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CLOSING-SUBMISSIONS-FINAL.pdf

This.

I wonder how many more strategic cases we'll have to fund at comparable cost before people and companies perform due diligence and actually read the laws, as written.

We need a central fighting fund for these strategic cases. Does anybody recall if there's a reason legal feminists can't set one up?

I think the Daily Mail has done more to report the impacts gender ideology on women’s rights than any other newspaper. Maya, Julie Bindel, Allison, all had articles published by or about them. They are above most other papers on women’s rights, the Guardian for example.

Oooh,oooh, me too! I loved the Polgara quote!

Absolutely, it's supported women and feminism more than any of the other MSM by far.

Love it!

Aja put it well on Twitter -

'Me" Hey why dont you pay me for advice so you don't get in trouble

Them: Yes that's a good idea

Me: Here's the advice

Some time later

Them: You know that advice you gave me? Well it got me in trouble

Me: Lols what you actually took my advice? Sucks to be you

#StonewallOut'

Why on earth would any organisation take any direction/advice/suggestions from Stonewall now? This as well as the University of Essex deplatforming report shows that Stonewall's chat is pure shite.

The 'Stonewall won!!' crowd do make me laugh though. Such utter head in the sand , fingers in ears toddlerish behaviour.

I am under no illusions that the Mail supports women's rights. The Mail knows its core readership demographic is older, right-leaning, pro-Brexit thanks to a lifetime of being fed stories along the lines of "EU bans bendy bananas!" and "EU H&S gorn mad means no more playing conkers for our cheeky chappy children". They know a reliable diet of 'anti-woke' stories will be lapped up by their readers. At the moment, genderism is the wokest of the woke so that's what they'll hold up for ridicule most often, and it so happens that because it's women holding the line on safeguarding and our own rights, we come out of it looking like the sensible ones. But I can be confident in saying that if, for example, Allison were to apply for a grant from any high profile left-wing funded organisation for something fairly esoteric, we'd be back to the "SuchAndSuchCorp PAYS for loony lesbian lawyer to read Dutch poetry to hamsters" style headlines, because that's their stock in trade.

I'm grateful to them for highlighting stories where other MSM fail to tread, and I don't have the 'urgh, a Mail link, not clicking THAT' reaction that many MNers do, but I don't fool myself that they actually stand for women as any kind of core ethos.

Just a shout out so we don't overtake the thread - I'm heading over to chat to start a David Eddings thread.

The importance of the coverage in the Daily Mail is due to it’s domination of the online newspaper market, worldwide.

It is only second to the New York Times in terms of monthly site visits. According to Press Gazette figures it receives around 370m visits per month.

And, again along with the NYT the are currently the only top 10 on line news site with significant growth in their traffic.

You may not like the DM as a brand for it’s overall coverage/tone/political stance, which is fair enough; but it is getting a clear message and position in front of millions of people on this subject, consistently and often. And these people vote, these people are influenced by what they read.

And almost more importantly Politicians and their advisors know this. They care what is in the Daily Mail because they know it influences voters.

Stonewall has been very effective in pushing its trans agenda via Equality Diversity and Inclusion initiatives and training, using its strong historic reputation. Thus immediate unquestioning support from the left, and initial "wanting to be on the right side of history" acceptance from Theresa May's Tories.

Before we knew it The Stonewall line reinforced by #no debate was everywhere. Maya, Allison, Sharron and anyone who questioned were at risk of losing their livelihoods. JKR, Joanna Cherry and Baroness Nicholson were vilified. Even David TC Davis MP, virtually the first politician to raise his head above the parapet received numerous complaints.

The Mail knows what its readers think. Biological men should not sharing prison cells or hospital wards or refuges with vulnerable women. Young teenagers do not have the capacity to make life changing decisions. Biological men who choose to compete in womens' sport have an unfair advantage. They have been good all along, and were one of the first MSM organisations to break the Stonewall led omerta.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to point out that a chambers whose reputation rests on defending left wing causes has treated one of its barristers, a black lesbian to boot, so badly. There is a level of hypocrisy in claiming a moral high ground but being so wedded to an ideology that they broke laws designed to protect individuals.

The Times article is well written - thank you for posting the share token.
But I havent seen any comment on this thread to this part of the case:

"During the four-week hearing some female barristers at the chambers argued that, despite its progressive and diverse image, Garden Court was rife with sex discrimination, which resulted in them being put on lower earnings than their male counterparts." So were GCC just discriminatory to women anyway as an employer?

I read the Belgariad aeons ago. I don’t remember anything about it so I didn’t even get the reference. 😂

The more I think about it the more I think that “take stonewall advice/complaints, get sued and they get off” is actually the best outcome

im honestly so amazed and just I guess think it’s so wonderful that many women have banded together to just say no more
I’m so so in awe
really tearful about it actually

does anybody know where I can sign up or join to help work more on these matters? Either financially or time or just meeting other super amazing and science believing women
i work for a diversity champion so I’d probably have to be somewhat quiet about it (altho I totally get how amusing that is in tbe context of maya and Allisons wins)

amazing amazing amazing
so humbled and pleased

Have you considered attending Filia 2022? www.filia.org.uk/tickets

Or maybe attending a WPUK event womansplaceuk.org

Thank you so much I’ll join both. if you think of any more please send them my way!

i feel like I really need to take a stand now
it can’t always be another woman’s job to fight for us. I’m a woman too. I believe in the cause. I have just as much responsibility

"During the four-week hearing some female barristers at the chambers argued that, despite its progressive and diverse image, Garden Court was rife with sex discrimination, which resulted in them being put on lower earnings than their male counterparts." So were GCC just discriminatory to women anyway as an employer?

After the big dust-up and analysis that revealed this, GCC introduced a logging and audit system to track it but the clerks didn't use it (possibly others).

Didn't the audit system have an unfortunate (probably not deliberate) acronym? FML comes to mind but I don't think that's right.

Haha! I think it was WTF.

And yes, there had been disparity in pay, and so this was formed to track and monitor it. And yes, I don't think it was used, although I'm not absolutely sure. maybe it wasn't used explicitly, but they did address the gender pay gap?

And on that note, we must think of something other than gender pay gap. Men with a female gender are not subject to it, so it needs to be more explicit. Sex pay gap doesn't really cut it.

An excellent new piece of satire (or is it?!) from Glinner: grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/leaked-memo-reveals-new-stonewall

if, for example, Allison were to apply for a grant from any high profile left-wing funded organisation for something fairly esoteric, we'd be back to the "SuchAndSuchCorp PAYS for loony lesbian lawyer to read Dutch poetry to hamsters" style headlines, because that's their stock in trade.

That turn of phrase floored me 😅

You're quite right, they would turn on her in a flash and knowing what a caring and compassionate woman Allison is I'm sure she's probably annoyed by the DM using her story to score points against 'lefty' lawyers defending immigrants.

I’ve actually been on the receiving end of the Daily Mail spinning it’s reporting of a crime I was victim of to suit its own agenda. I was really annoyed. i think in this situation it seems to be more aligned with Allison’s views at least.

just saw Tavistock shutting down too?!

I agree that the DM’s coverage of the risk gender ideology poses to women has been vastly better than that of the Guardian, and it’s a good point that they have political influence. I’m grateful it’s being covered and the issues recognised.

But it still bothers me having The Mail and not the Guardian for an ally. Firstly I think it must reinforce the ideas of those who think GC people are unkind bigots. Secondly, why can’t the left wing press see that IT IS HOMOPHOBIC TO SAY LESBIANS SHOULD ACCEPT PENIS? It’s fucking depressing and it’s stupid and I just don’t get it.

just saw Tavistock shutting down too?!

Yup, BBC Radio 4 covering it on The World at One now. What a month!

Yes I just saw the demise of the Tavistock too. So far this month we have had the 2 year trans toddlers reverse ferret, Allison's case and now Tavistock. The tide is turning.

And this is all down to women who have been fighting this for years (notable exceptions include Glinner, Dennis Kavanagh and Mr Menno) particularly the brave, brave feminists who have put their heads above the parapet, supported by thousands (like me) of women who have financially supported them from our captured bunkers.

Also a shout out to Justine and the moderators of Mumsnet, particularly the latter who are unsung heros in managing a contentious subject in such a way that this board has managed to survive (also with bonus humour at times).

One small request @MNHQ - could we have an amnesty for the brilliant posters who were banned due to their passionate defence of women's rights, who contravened the (surely now defunct) posting guidelines?