Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 18

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April, witness testimony concluded on the 26th May. Closing arguments for council was on the 20th June.

There was also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:

AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC )
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case

Panel = Judge Goodman, Mr M. Reuby and Ms Darmas

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Thread 16 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557036-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-16

Thread 17 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4561850-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-17

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)
Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Allison Bailey's

Witness Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Witness-Statement-of-Allison-Bailey.pdf

Supplementary Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/C-Supplementary-Witness-Statement.pdf

Closing Statement

allisonbailey.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/CLOSING-SUBMISSIONS-FINAL.pdf

Neil Johnston and Jonathan Ames who wrote the Times article really appear to have stonewall's number. It is scathing.

Bailey had tweeted her rejection of the concept of a “cotton ceiling”, which she said suggested that trans women had a right to sex with lesbian women. Bailey said that a Stonewall activist had used the term during a workshop at the chambers, and that this amounted to teaching heterosexual men to coerce lesbians into having sex with them.

She said that the Equality Act did not cover males who could be described as “cross-dressers”, but Stonewall guidance did and that the organisation was operating outside the act.

The tribunal’s ruling marked the end of a fraught and highly unusual two-year saga in which Kirrin Medcalf, Stonewall’s head of trans inclusion, told the judge that he required a support worker, his mother and a support dog to accompany him while giving evidence.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/de6fed9e-0da6-11ed-a4af-79eb4b98fc31?shareToken=8f30f089dfd8ac8641a5ecb5c043a11e

Both

Link for anyone interested transsafety.network/posts/bailey-v-gcc-analysis/

How are the paragraphs you have quoted, that report the Chambers’ previous achievements, pushing an “anti immigrant/traveller narrative”?

Hope I'm allowed to post the Times comments, but don't think they are visible on share token and really wanted to share the current top comment:

'Allison Bailey’s courage is immense. The public has had enough of the attack on women. Stonewall should be profoundly ashamed of its homophobic conduct. As should any Stonewall Champion organisation'

Right now on 1178 likes.

It is weird how the TRAs and Stonewall totally underestimate women isn't it? It is like they can't see that we are also people who won't allow them to throw us under the bus. Which demonstrates enormous ignorance of how feminists have fought tooth and nail to get the rights we have and how momentous the uphill battle was/is.

That's because their idea of what a woman is is based on their stereotypes. The stuff that the TRAs put on twitter, how they can't open jars now, are oppressed and 'brave'.

The ones they claim they have period pains, they wouldn't survive an even moderately bad period.

Women have died to get us our rights, they nearest they have come to that is blue hair dye.

I'm currently playing catch up as I've been ill the last few days but I just want to say congratulations Allison. You are an absolute star!

As for Stonewall who would use them now???

It's unlikely it would have got off the ground and reached court if she didn't have the means to pay.

Fortunately thousands of ordinary people supported her.

'The accusations of “Stonewall Law” have been proven a myth - the case was clear that it was Stonewall who benefited most from GCC, not the other way around.'

lol did they really mean to say that? Yes, Stonewall got money and GCC got shafted. I'm not sure how that proves that "Stonewall Law" is a myth, they were shafted because they were following Stonewall Law and Allison stood up to them.

I'm wondering if it was a typo but it doesn't make any more sense the other way round!

Unfortunately not, they're appropriating AB's win against GCC to attack 'lefty lawyers'

just seen the context for this, are you genuinely "disappointed" that the Mail got a dig in at GCC for being lefty lawyers? I find that bizarre. It would have been surprising if they hadn't!

Maya Forstater ended up doing a factchecked version of the one that they produced for her tribunal outcome.

mforstater.medium.com/trans-safety-network-talks-about-the-forstater-case-b9ef1c71b6ad

Having learned from that, I'll wait for similar for Trans Safety's opinion on Allison's.

You're right, I should have stopped being disappointed with the Mail years ago. 😆

For me it's a shame they have taken something that I supported (Allison's tribunal) and used it negatively to push their anti-immigrant/anti-traveller hate campaigns, two causes that I also support passionately.

Ah the bad old Daily Mail

www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jan/04/stephen-lawrence-parents-daily-mail

You haven’t explained how reporting what cases the Chambers have taken in the past means they’re pushing that narrative in the AB.

I have no issue with having a pop at lefty lawyers. They’re like lefty journalists; sanctimonious, sure they know what’s best for everyone and hypocritical.

The Daily Mail and theTimes both appear to be nailing Stonewater the wall. All Allison's allegations are splashed across both papers. With explanations that sound badshit, obviously.

And now Rishi and Liz are going head-to-head on who can uphold women's rights the most.

<faints>

^stonewall to the wall

grrr

That's a hell of a leap.

I don’t support the Rwanda programme 🤨. I just don’t agree with your interpretation of why they reported - with clear facts - what other cases Garden Chambers have been involved with. I think it’s a cheeky poke at their so called left wing credentials by pointing out they’ve bullied a black lesbian feminist.

If you don’t want to derail the thread, don’t purity spiral the reporting of one source in one article because you don’t agree with their position on other things.

And yes, I did just use “purity spiral” as a verb. In this age of language being whatever the hell we want it to be, I’m sticking with it.

I just don’t agree with your interpretation of why they reported - with clear facts - what other cases Garden Chambers have been involved with. I think it’s a cheeky poke at their so called left wing credentials by pointing out they’ve bullied a black lesbian feminist.

cheeky poke

Wow, have you ever read the Daily Mail?

Yes. What’s your point?

I think it’s a cheeky poke at their so called left wing credentials by pointing out they’ve bullied a black lesbian feminist

Is how I read it too.

I think the daily mail is a dirty rag, who would in other circumstances categorise Allison as the enemy/a lefty lawyer. And I think they have a shit record on supporting women’s (or anyone’s) rights more generally. But they know biology matters and they take “our” view on what a woman is.

I see that in its main summary of today's newspapers, the BBC ignores the Daily Mail's front page story, entirely devoted to Allison's tribunal outcome, and instead mentions an article from inside the paper about prescriptions being delivered by drones. (The roundup does very briefly mention Allison under the screenshots of the front pages of the Mail and the Times; it's the main text below where it shows its hand.)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-62328298