I have a question about same sex attraction and trans rights in the context of gay men and transmen

[Diagnosticdigressions]

Like lots of parents, I'm having plenty of lively discussions with teen daughter at the moment about the question of whether transwomen are women etc and the complexities of that. Have also had conversations with lesbian friends about the impact of this debate on them. Was somewhat alarmed at the statement from the head of Stonewall recently that seemed to infer that lesbian women who don't date (trans)women are transphobic (I think he also likened it to racism and excluding people from your dating pool on the grounds of ethnicity).

Anyway, it got me thinking about how gay men feel about dating transmen (or just other 'men' if that is your take on it) - specifically those who have not undergone gender reassignment surgery? I've not heard anything about that and, based on past conversations with gay friends, I just can't imagine them being up for dating a (trans)man with breasts and female genitalia.

But, I admit I haven't had a conversation like that in many years and maybe times are changing and I'm out of touch. So, where are gay men in all this? This is genuinely not meant as a goady post - I actually don't know and am interested to know why this doesn't seem to get anywhere near the same level of coverage.

They did actually. And none of it is good though I agree, as I’ve said, that the abuse directed at women is much worse. And, as a woman with two daughters, I’m not “very concerned about men”. You seem determined to pick holes in what I say, which even given the concerns others have expressed about suspect posters on this board, seems unreasonable at this point. I would, as I said upthread, like to stick around on here because it matters. But I guess posting isn’t for me for now.

Crumbs, I just had a look at that website. I’m starting to think that I grew up in a gentler age than young people now (I’m firmly middle aged).

I think homophobes/lesbophobes have found a new conduit through the transgender 'cause'.

'Transing away the gay' was it appears, using the Tavistock & Portman Trust official figures from just 1st January-31st December 2012 (a decade ago) already firmly-established, with nearly 70% of females being referred being same-sex attracted, and nearly 45% of males being same-sex attracted. This was before the explosion in referrals inside the last 5 years.

And there are some significant supporters of 'trans away the gay' to-be-found. Well, easy enough to find; just look for anyone on Twitter who reckons the LGB Alliance is a 'hate group' and you've, in all likelihood, uncovered a homophobe/lesbophobe. That's because opposing 'transing away the gay' is a core plank of the LGBA's activities, typified by its short film, Gay Teens Aren't Sick!

Of course there are gay men and lesbians who reckon that the LGBA is a hate group; Owen Jones and The Scottish Actor come-to-mind immediately. These might be best thought of as collaborators in the campaign to 'trans away the gay', but it is for them to explain why they oppose the LGBA's efforts to oppose the medicalisation of LGB teens. The LGBA is pretty clear in its message;

'We know that the majority of children and young people prescribed Puberty Blockers are lesbian, gay or bi-sexual. This is an attack on young LGB people and we will not stay silent'

A New Homophobia is stalking the land, and it is way more vicious that anything even the 1950s could produce in the US or UK. Medicalising LGB teens is about as low as Western society can descend-to, yet it has huge support from the New Homophobes who would otherwise describe themselves as 'progressive'. Add on the hate and the often-stated desires to eliminate gay men and lesbians as a group expressed by TRA's/leftists online and at events like Pride, and you have a toxic brew that is just getting worse.

She sees it as being unkind and assuming the worst of an entire group of people. It's a v widespread view among her and her contemporaries.

I realise this is not part of your question about homosexual men and trans men but I just am interested to know if by any chance you asked her whether not allowing ordinary men into a woman’s prison, changing room etc would not also mean seeing the worst in an entire group?