Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 16

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

Barbara Rich is an excellent follow on Twitter.

She & a Scottish law professor unravelled the recent so-called 'trans' peer book which has misinterpreted Scottish law or something. It was amazing to watch them both just dig into it & build an case that the whole premise of the book was built on a (wilful?) misinterpretation of the judgement on whether the peer had a right to inherit as their birth cert has been altered (suspected genuine DSD case, not a trans one).

She's also really good at highlighting the fox killing QC's folly.

Do pass on my admiration for her. She's always very calm & even handed, but clear in her views when she expresses them.

Paraphrased summaries are, by definition, less accurate and whilst I can understand that the court service isn't prepared to fund a transcript, given that TT is prepared to provide one for free what is the problem?

Beyond AB's case, ET are one area where there is a desperate need for official transcripts to balance the power asymmetries of people who can't afford representation. They should also be available for other types of hearings where people have to represent themselves against a well-funded system. There had been a decent tryout.

“The President said that audio-recording would be welcome for a number of reasons: reducing the need for the judges to take verbatim notes; providing parties with a transcript of the hearing; improving the conduct of hearings generally; providing some discouragement for litigants or witnesses to misconduct themselves in hearings; and giving leadership judges the means to check complaints about how a judge allegedly behaved in a hearing (and thereby perhaps discouraging unmeritorious complaints).

By November 2019 the minutes recorded: “The President updated the members on the intention to provide audio-recording equipment in all Employment Tribunal hearing rooms. A budget for the equipment had been secured, but making this proposal operational was taking a little longer than intended because it was important to get the right recording equipment and to have in place a protocol for its use. “

Yet by March 2020 when the pandemic struck nothing appears to have been done -apart from a few trials. One of them at social security and child support hearings in Exeter had already been a success before February 2019.

davidhencke.com/2022/05/11/backtracking-and-pussy-footing-how-a-top-judge-reneged-on-plans-to-start-nationwide-recordings-at-tribunals/

I don't know what I'm going to do with myself tomorrow.

I have to say, I'm so pleased I got a link for the streamed hearing. I had been following the TT thread on the twit machine but the real deal was far more enlightening.

Luckily I work for myself and don't have to put up with the bollocks and can skive if I need to.

All this stuff makes me glad I'm not a proper employee of anyone. The whole trial shunted me back to being bullied and ostracised at school (for not being in-with-the-in-crowd) and felt like a retelling of Mean Girls.

Except worse. Because these are supposed to be competent adults who work in justice.

It's absolutely shocking what Allison had to go through. Unbelievable, sickening, stuff.

I think GCC's reputation is done after this, and I hope Allison's career really takes off.

I don't know what I'm going to do with myself tomorrow.

Dial up the Mariah and get on with all the jobs we've not been doing!!

I wondered if nationwide productivity had dipped, and how many kids' jumpers were sewn shut as a result of this tribunal.

Also, from now on, if I say I'm off for a quick De Menezes I hope you'll all know what I mean

My thanks to @ickky too and all you wonderful, hilarious, erudite and wise vipers on here. I've followed along on these threads and am so thankful for the exposure that you've brought to the shocking treatment of Allison. I very much hope that the judgement reflects that and that she is fully vindicated and goes on to many great successes.

Off for a support gin and tonic.

Thank you all for the threads! I have a couple of questions:

1. Which one of you thanked EJ's cat in the chat at the end

2. I thought AH possibly said have you seen the cat not chat in response to the comment? Either way, it was an interesting overheard comment as he kicked back

3. In terms of what happens next, what's a written submission and how do they vary from the oral submissions?

Zoe Playdon's book about Dr Ewan Forbes Sempill.

Professor Playdon's book also claimed that Sir Ewan's case 'rocked British society and transformed transgender experience to this day'.

But barrister Barbara Rich and law lecturer Scott Wortley published a series of tweets challenging the book, which was published last month by Bloomsbury.

Rich pointed to the 1967 Scottish ruling on the case, where judge Lord Hunter ruled that Sir Ewan was a 'true hermaphrodite in whom the male sexual characteristics predominate.' She said this could not 'reasonably be read as a finding that he was a transgender man'.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10303731/Battle-transgender-baronet-Dr-Ewan-Forbes-Sempill-born-woman.html

I had a nosey on Twitter and found an account for Stephen Simblatt. The account is locked, and basically unused 😎

Well, may I just say I fucking love you all? The most wonderful series of threads on MN (thank you ThreadAngel™️ ickky ) showing such support, comradeship, and just the general power of fantastic women, basically.

You go Allison, you're a fucking star too, and we are all behind you!

Thanks again to everyone here for the amazing commentary and humour. Just typed a long post about my expectations of the brilliance of QC’s brains being sorely disappointed (except for Ben of course) but lost it in a random page refresh so will just say the whole thing has been an education and a half.

This has been an education

I never imagined that peopl3 who work as lawyers and judges could be like this.

a total education.

ta for all that did this 👏👏👏👏👏👏🍷

Filia do a week newsletter and put of an annual woman's rights conference- this year it's in Cardiff. It's always an incredible weekend - I've been to five now 😊

www.filia.org.uk/

Massive appreciation to all who've posted on this, especially those listening live for helping the rest of us keep informed. You're all utterly brilliant.

I know it's not the done thing to unmask anyone, but I think I've spotted the presence of JKR herself on these threads and, well, huge appreciation to you Joanne if I'm right because I'm a late bloomer when it comes to being GC and it's really your calm stating of facts and clear support of women that's helped me see why we need to be fighting this battle. The amazing frequenters of the FWR boards have helped fill in the rest, what a great bunch.

I'm not drunk I promise, and if I'm wrong about JKR in our midst, no harm done eh

Thank you all and a big  for @ickky for such exceptional thread management.

This has been an eye opening experience - not always in a good way - but even when I've been appalled at some of the testimonies,I feel absolutely privileged to have been able to witness them.

I have utmost respect for the key players who must be exhausted.

But more than anything, I send enormous respect to Allison. You have done an extraordinary thing here and I am humbled by your courage.

Allison has tweeted:

mobile.twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1529848126978269185?cxt=HHwWgoCxjYOxjrsqAAAA

"We’ve finished hearing all of the evidence in my employment tribunal action against Stonewall & Garden Court. We’re back in court on 20 June for closing submissions, with judgement on a later date. Thank you to my legal team & to all of you who have & continue to support me."

Just caught up on the rest of today. Pukey child got poopy as well, it's been quite a time of it here I tell you. Thanks for all the commentary and continued illumination of dank and gloomy spaces under rocks. Are we reconvening in June to catch up?

Thank you all for these threads. It’s been great to read the reactions when I haven’t been able to log into the live stream and even when I have. I had to work today and missed most of it unfortunately. Sounds like I missed some real corkers! Much of what I have heard has been genuinely sobering coming from supposedly highly intelligent and clear thinking people. Utmost respect to Allison and the other brave women who are prepared to take it on.

TheClitterati - try the Women's Rights Network (WRN) on Twitter - they've organised local groups.

Adding my thanks for the wit and wisdom here - I've read Tribunal tweets avidly but the extra information, laughs and - yes - wisdom! here has been fabulous. Thank you.

Thank you for all the threads, humour and insight. This trial has been an eye opener in more ways than one.I'm am truly shocked that people who are in positions of power are so biased,and seeing some of the testimony has reinforced my belief that just because someone does a 'professional 'job,they are not necessarily good at it.

Tallisker I 'm going to have to sit on my hands when our finger wagging legal 'expert' next pays in their inevitable visit. I am however,toying with changing my user name to F*edupbundle.

Allison, I'm so sorry that you had to work with such a bunch of bullies. I hope that you prevail and find a better job elsewhere,where your talents will be appreciated. Thank you.

Links are fine now - feeling slightly gas-lighted...

Best wishes to pukey/poopy child. Now THAT takes me back...

Tallisker I 'm going to have to sit on my hands when our finger wagging legal 'expert' next pays in their inevitable visit. I am however,toying with changing my user name to F*edupbundle.

Do it!

I agree, but at that time Stonewall's acceptance without acceptance was in full swing. The luberal/left wing were barely reporting on this at all, and that was one of the things we were lamenting, how to get the message out there??. If U lived in a rarefied left wing bubble, how would you have come across gender ideology other than TWAT??

Having watched the whole thing, if I was in need of a barrister, it would be Allison. She was put under so much pressure before this even started, but was unflappable under cross examination. In contrast to everyone else. We had tantrums, red faces, loooong explanations as they tried to pretend to tell the truth. Whereas Allison just told the truth. And it showed.