Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 16

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

He says he's also not Jeremy Corbyn

Sorry, didn't mean to mis-divinity you. Would that be an ecumenical matter?

@IcakethereforeIam erm.....you what now?

Drink! Arse! Feck!

Apologies, your Drainliness. It seems I simultaneously misnamed Corbyn's hobby, too. According to Wikipedia, 'Corbyn is an avid "drain spotter" and has photographed decorative drain and manhole covers throughout the country'.

Although "manhole cover" sounds like a dodgy TRA euphemism ...

rule 9: Men always know the real reasons for everything women do and say

4w.pub/the-rules-of-misogyny/

It has taken me days to get to the end of these threads. Reporting, analysis and biscuits. You have spoiled me.

My contribution is to say chocolate malted milk are fabulous as they stay crunchy even when dunked.

Thank You everyone. I really hope this leads to change along with a win for Allison.

Shiny new name change for this. I have just been invited to an employment law webinar. It is hosted jointly between a well known company and a law firm.

The webinar is about discrimination and topics include managing trans/GC beliefs. This time last year, few HR professionals would acknowledge there was a conflict. This is progress and is thanks to Maya and Allison. They, along with JKR and others have opened the discussion.

Please report back, won't you. As you say, it's down to Maya and Allison that people feel able to talk openly about this.

That's progress - fingers crossed it's actually balanced!

"manhole cover" sounds like a dodgy TRA euphemism ...

I can see a workshop on "Breaking Through The Manhoods;e Cover" being very well attended.

*Manhole

Impressive review of that practical guide.

Will do. Do attend these sort of things from time to time and I have seen a change of tone.

I was peaked about 3 or 4 years ago at a conference where there was a speaker from girl guides. The speaker did not use the word 'girl' throughout her presentation, referring to children or young people. The conference was all about safeguarding. At the time, I had just started dipping onto the FWR threads and something just clicked for me.

At the most recent equalities seminar I attended, someone asked a GC question. She was not shot down by the speaker, but received a respectful but waffly response.

Better not see RMW at The Valley. Worse than Millwall.

I can see a workshop on "Breaking Through The Manhole Cover" being very well attended.

Bring your own power tools?

Now now, @BenCoopersSupportWren, you know as well as I do that women don’t have anything worth listening to. Heads full of fanciful notions and silly fripperies, and other people shouldn’t have to listen to our nonsense. And we certainly should not be raising our voices because then we would be shrill.

I can see a workshop on "Breaking Through The Manhole Cover" being very well attended.

I've seen a sneak peek of the powerpoint presentation on "How your groundworker can open the manhole cover with non approved manhole keys"

Its groundbreaking

although there has been some kick back from certain factions of the Tool Critical manhole covers, but meh!

I have to admit that was not a comparison I was expecting to see on here.

I have to admit that was not a comparison I was expecting to see on here.

Would that be because you suspect barristers' clerks are thin on the ground in this thread unless we're discussing their fervent assurances that they never gossip and only discuss football when they exchange social and bonding chitchat amongst themselves and in playful not at all awkward banter with the male barristers?

Article in the Law section of the Times today "Bar chiefs in free speech dispute":

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/57da0612-e1a4-11ec-8bdd-c253e043f5f0?shareToken=ff71ca3ca0901d49cd11a04fb5a270bc

Under cross-examination by Bailey’s barrister, Ben Cooper QC, McGahey defended the idea of overcoming the cotton ceiling, and suggested that “you can persuade a lesbian that she might want to . . . have sex with a trans woman in a way that was not coercive”.

McGahey compared the idea of encouraging male-bodied people to break through the cotton ceiling and have sex with lesbians with Nelson Mandela’s fight to end racial segregation in post-apartheid South Africa.

McGahey’s comments at the tribunal appear to echo those made last year by Nancy Kelley, the chief executive of Stonewall, who likened not wanting to date transgender people with racial and other prejudices.

Quite.

A board spokesman said that the regulator was reviewing its social media guidance and intended to conduct a public consultation about possible revisions in the next few months.

I wonder if the BSB is also going to consider the content of interviews in which somebody misrepresents the substance of a protected belief in preference to clarity about that of their own?

I did enjoy the almost panicked disclaimers from the Bar Council:

A spokeswoman for the council declined to state whether the body stood by McGahey’s comments, but said that any guidance from the ethics helpline was not legal advice and that the body accepted no responsibility or liability for any action taken in reliance on it. She added that the council, which has never been a member of Stonewall’s Diversity Champions scheme, had not sought or received advice from the charity.

I loved those, too @NecessaryScene - especially this bit

"any guidance from the ethics helpline was not legal advice and that the body accepted no responsibility or liability for any action taken in reliance on it"

DON'T BLAME US WE'RE ONLY LAWYERS 😫