Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 16

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

There's something really fucking wrong about all this, at a national security level.

It is fundamentally disturbing on many, many levels. The exposure of such vulnerabilities and the implications for society and our wider security are potentially as wretched as you outline.

@user237845 put the baby bird out of the way somewhere safe, the parent birds will hear it calling and come to it. It'll definitely be found and killed if it's left exposed.

Thanks @IcakethereforeIam , DD and I have now put it in a nearby shrub (which we saw mum/dad flying from to come and see it in middle of lawn) in cut-out bottom of cereal box with old nest material in it tied onto the branches so hopefully a parent will see it and feed it.

Agree - it definitely had no chance in the middle of the lawn. Maybe it's got a bit of a chance now. Nature is brutal

I've just been reading Jo Phoenix's crowdfunder page which reminds me that whilst I knew about MF's case obtaining the ruling for GC beliefs BUT I think on a previous AB thread someone said that whatever the outcome, it wouldn't set a legal precedent because it's an EAT. So why did the MF case manager to do so? (Or how are they different?). Just curious!

Gosh that didn't make a lot of sense! Sorry. Hopefully you get my drift.

And *manage not manager!

The decision last summer regarding gender critical belief being a protected philosophical belief was made at an EAT.

Then Forstater's case went back to an ET.

Is there a link to the Jo Phoenix case?

Just google her name, there is a crowdfunder which has a lot of info.

@User237845 you rock! What a lucky unlucky bird. Talking of which....Stella Creasy, I can't tear myself away.

What?! Why has my post been deleted?!

If you've included a crowdfunder link, it's automatically blocked. Not just this topic - across the boards.

I think Employment Appeal Tribunals can set precedents as they're a higher tier court. The first Forstater case and this one are in first tier tribunals so don't set legal precedent. IANAL.

Could someone contact Ben Cooper, maybe he has room in his beard? Sometimes wrens need support.

If you tweet Maya or Allison I’m sure they’d be happy to pass it on 😁

Dammit not on twitter, just have to hope he reads these threads. Super Cooper to the rescue!

Anyway, as you were.

Have you been chasing wrens or something BIWI?

Jo's garden is looking good but if it is to be a good home for wrens she will have to fill a few gaps over the next 16 days.

I'm no good with plants - do you think that a nesting box and a few bee homes would be ok?

I'll have to check in with the cats

That's correct. Although ET decisions can still be persuasive, they are not binding.

Reassuring info about wren - BIL works in wildlife. Yes, just put it somewhere with a bit of shelter and near where you found it. Feed the parents, if you want to be real helpful water down some cat food in a shallow dish and put out dried mealworms (can get them in Pets R Us or B+M and big supermarkets).

Or, call BC.

He can sort everything out.

Thank you for the explanations of ET vs EAT. I just though it was two abbreviations for the same thing. That makes a lot of sense.

Two things really.

Firstly, yes ideologies will get into the high end when people who sell things like puberty blockers invest their cash in political parties.

Secondly, may I raise your dunking bourbon and custard cream game with a little Tim Tam action. Which I have been doing with Penguins for years.

Why? I still don't understand the why? Why are they doing this? Is it literally a men's sexual rights movement and any damage to children and young people along the way, not to mention to women's rights, is just collateral damage and of no account? As long as men get what they want?

AlisonDonut I can't manage it with Penguins but with Fingers OMG perfection. You've just got to time it right or the whole thing disintegrates into your cuppa.

Is it literally a men's sexual rights movement and any damage to children and young people along the way, not to mention to women's rights, is just collateral damage and of no account? As long as men get what they want?

As long as the men get want they want and the women get pushed back down, yes that's what it feels like.