Allison Bailey v Stonewall - Employment Tribunal hearing Thread 16

[ickky]

The Tribunal started on 25th April at 10am. If you would like to view online you need to send a request for access as early as possible.

Send an email to

[email protected]

The subject heading of the email request should read

“MEDIA OR PUBLIC ACCESS REQUEST – Case number 2202172/2020 - Ms A Bailey – 25th April 2022.

Then ask for the pin for the online access.

You will be contacted with instructions on how to observe the hearing.

When joining the live tribunal please choose a non inflammatory/offensive name, everyone can see it in the chat - This is a court room, please behave accordingly.

The court chat function is there for official court purposes, not for observers, please don't use it unless you have a technical issue.

On the first page underneath where you put your screen name, select the video and mic that are not crossed out (top option), this is the courts vid and mic.
On the next page select NONE on the drop down windows for vid and mic, these are your own video and mic.

You must be muted so as to not disturb the hearing.

There is also live tweeting from

twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Abbreviations:
AB: Allison Bailey, claimant
BC: Ben Cooper QC, barrister for AB
SW = Stonewall Equality Limited (respondent 1)
IO = Ijeoma Omambala QC, senior counsel - barrister for SW
RW = Robin White junior counsel to SW - assisting IO
GC = Garden Court Chambers Limited (respondent 2) (GCC would be a better abbreviation)
AH = Andrew Hochhauser QC, senior counsel - barrister for GC
JR = Jane Russell junior counsel to GC - assisting AH
RM= Rajiv Menon QC & SH = Stephanie Harrison QC (jointly respondent 3 along with all members of GC except AB)
EJ = Employment Judge Goodman hearing the case
Panel = any one of the three panel members (EJ and two lay members)

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4529887-Allison-Bailey-v-Stonewall-Employment-Tribunal-hearing?

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4542466-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-2

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4545725-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546945-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-4

Thread 5 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4548160-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-5

Thread 6 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4550451-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-6

Thread 7 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4551757-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-7

Thread 8 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552521-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-8

Thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553181-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-9

Thread 10 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4553754-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-10

Thread 11 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555145-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-11

Thread 12 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4555687-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-12

Thread 13 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556235-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-13

Thread 14 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556407-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-14

Thread 15 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4556803-allison-bailey-v-stonewall-employment-tribunal-hearing-thread-15

Allison Bailey - claimant (4-9, 11-13 May)

Witnesses for the claimant:

Dr Nicola Williams - Fair Play for Women (29 April)
Dr Judith Green - A Woman's Place (29 April)
Kate Barker - LGB Alliance (3 May)
Lisa-Marie Taylor - FiLiA (4 May)

Witnesses for the respondents:

Stephen Lue - barrister for GCC (3-4 May)
Zainab Al-Farabi - ex Stonewall (10 May)
Kirrin Medcalf - head of trans inclusion Stonewall (10 May)
Leslie Thomas - barrister at GCC (13 May)
Sanjay Sood Smith - Stonewall (16 May)
Shaan Knan - LGBT consortium - on STAG (16 May)
Rajiv Menon - joint head of chambers (16-17 May)
Maya Sikand - barrister at GCC (17-18 May)
Mia Hakl-Law - HR senior for GCC (18 May)
Judy Khan - barrister at GCC (19-20 May)
Charlie Tennent - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Luke Harvey - clerk at GCC (20 May)
Louise Hooper - Barrister at GCC (20 May)
David Renton - barrister at GCC (20 May, 25 May)
Marc Willers - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Stephen Clark - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Liz Davies - Barrister at GCC (23 May)
Cathryn McGahey - Bar Council Ethics Committee's VC (24 May)
Tom Wainwright - Barrister at GCC (24 May)
Colin Cook - Head clerk at GCC (24 May)
David de Menezes - GCC, Head of Marketing (25 May)
Kathryn Cronin - barrister at GCC (25 May)
Michelle Brewer - barrister at GCC at time, now left and a judge (26 May)
Stephanie Harrison - joint head of chambers (26 May)

To Come

Closing arguments for AB, GCC, and SW (20 June)

<provocatively licks biscuit>

😆

Well said @needmoresleep at 08:37. 👏

I hope you stick around, that was a great post.

Exactly, I kept waiting for a witness to say I read what AB said and then spoke to her to make sure I understood her position.

Has it finished? Damn this having a job malarkey, I’m still working my way through thread 15 😅

It occurred to me that perhaps TW's wriggling and scratching was because he was employing a support poo.

Supportwren, I have been around forever, including on this board, but had not posted on these threads. As soon as I caught up, discussion had moved on. All hugely interesting and educational. Not just around the capture of an organisation by cult like thinking, but wider.

A particular irritant for me is management by numbers. Set targets and judge your performance by the number you tick off. Here it was an ED&I target set by Stonewall, which allowed management to switch off. They had their certificate. Who cares is the target itself was meaningless, even damaging. Many, especially those in the public sector will have had bonus’s linked to individual or team targets. No slack if circumstances change so you work really hard and perform better than might reasonably be expected. You did not meet the target. Management involves wisdom, aptitude, experience and interest. There is no reason to assume reluctant QCs on a rotation will make good managers. GCC might look at hiring someone capable of standing up to their self indulgent egotistical SJWs and who can ensure that the organisation is a run effectively and is a safe, fair and indeed pleasant, place to work.

Supportwren, I have been around forever, including on this board, but had not posted on these threads.

I did actually think I recognised your username but doubted myself after your 'first post' comment! (Menopause brain.)

My DH also struggles to be fully supportive. He says he understands & agrees with the logic & facts when we talk about thus but loses interest, eyes glaze over etc. He really means to be supportive because it's important to me but he doesn't get the emotional gut punch that I do because....no skin in the game.

Right, I'm back dark chocolate ginger and orange, and one of those sharing (sharing?) packs.

@Emotionalsupportviper saw you'd had a post deleted, genuinely thought it was the one with the biscuit porn

Has it finished?

Not quite LeniGray, there will be at least the 20 June, and possibly another day, when all the parties present their closing arguments. I'd say that watching BC pull together 5 weeks of evidence will be a must-watch. It'll also be worth seeing the same done for GCC and for SW, to have a feel for how the competing cases look when set against each other.

After that, it's likely to be a month or two before the decision is actually handed down.

Who wouldn't want to take off a Monday for that, and as a bonus get a long weekend? (Although not everyone will have a day's holiday spare.)

😂

I’ve just come back from a garden centre trip to buy tomato growbags and they had an extensive range of as-yet-unexplored Borders biscuit flavours. A titanic internal struggle was overcome only by the knowledge that I have some of the chocolate-orange ones at home

Ooh @Zeugma I admire your self control. Tell me more about these biscuits.

You are stronger-willed than the rest of us, @Zeugma

25 more pages of biscuit talk and we'll need thread 17 @ickky. Be prepared.

I bought a Borders biscuit multipack today 😬

Tribunal Tweets have published a summary of proceeding which is a useful index of proceedings. Included a sketch of BC (no support wren)

tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/allison-bailey-vs-stonewall-and-garden-6f9?s=w

Poopy/Pukey child much improved today, happy to report, though DH is looking a little green. Still mulling over the week's other events and just cannot get my head around how an ostensibly very intelligent group of people collectively allowed this to unfold to the point they all made themselves look complete tits in a court of law. Definitely clearing my diary for the 20th June and looking forward to reconvening (hint hint @Ickky) to listen to the summing up etc.

Toast fairies find fame on Twitter:

twitter.com/genderwang/status/1529859304399986689?s=21&t=fAfbS2WlY05M7_R17irxHQ

Just listening to this and it strikes me that there's potential for people to lose faith in those they should trust after seeing behind the GCC curtain. The NHS already has issues with people feeling unheard, unlistened to in terms of women's health - the idea that large organisations like legal services, children's mental health care (already struggling), social services (likewise) etc that should be there to help people are letting ideology get in the way of actually doing what they're supposed to do - it's got real potential to drive people further away. Where are people supposed to go? Perhaps it's been discussed before, but it just crystallised in my mind and it scares me that people's choices are effectively taken away.

That looks awfully like a transcript to me... (the other one, not the toast one)

Love this!

It has only just occurred to me that the extent of interest in this case extends far beyond the GC/TRA groups. People who have never turned their minds to the substantive GC and TRA arguments will have tuned in not because of the subject matter, but because GCC were the respondents.

This case must be of interest and relevance to the entire legal community of the UK and probably beyond. Has there ever before been a case with so many junior barristers, QCs and a judge on the stand? IANAL so please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is surely unprecedented in legal circles. Other lawyers must be following the case because they know the respondents personally or by reputation, or it's going to be relevant to their own chambers' or firms' management, or affect whether they brief GCC barristers in the future, or a combination.

So many hundreds, and probably many thousands of people will now have been exposed to the real meat of the GC and TRA arguments and started thinking about them, when they might otherwise not have engaged with the issues at all.

Gosh. That is quite something.

Fear not, I am keeping an eye. 🍪👀

For those asking about 20th June.

I don't know if the same login and pin will work for the 20th June. I had a look on courtserve, but it is only got listings up to the 10th June. I'll give it a couple of weeks and email them about it. Worse case, we all have to email for a new one.