R4 PM

[Igmum]

Damian Green has just been balanced and sensible about trans rights on R4's PM programme (about 40 minutes in). Is more sense seeping through?

Someone needs to ask Evan if he would date a trans man and if not why not. No way does he believe you can transition your biology, he is speaking bollox.

I'm working class, do you think if I identify as middle class I could get a job at the BBC management?

‘When you go as far as to say women are a real thing, I mean... don’t you think that might be irreconcilable with the positions of some [cranks who think women aren’t a thing]?’

Yes, we do.

@IvyTwines

I can't believe we've got to a place where a former presenter of the BBC's Newsnight and Radio 4's main news programme thinks acknowledging basic human biology is an extreme position.

Well quite. Completely unacceptable.

‘Davis is an intelligent man. Surely he doesn't really believe this 'assigned at birth ' rubbish?’

I think class privilege creates a lot of grey area between ‘sounds intelligent’ and ‘is intelligent’.

I actually think that highly intelligent people find it easier to believe nonsense than the less intelligent. I think there is some research supporting this. E.g. academics are used the bending their minds around difficult subjects so they can bend their minds to things that make no sense.

Evan Davis is a gay man who believes women are support humans to men. I'm sure in the fashionable intellectual circles Davis moves, there are a lot of men who have transitioned.

The transwomen who have raped and assaulted women are of no interest. Their victims are women and he is not interested in women. He is much more interested in protecting his friends' interests.

Personally, I don't think such an obvious bigot should be presenting the BBC's flagship afternoon news programme. But the BBC does like to play fast and loose with its aim of being objective and independent

ED: But I think there would be people in your party who would say that going as far as you do in saying a transwoman is not biologically a woman and biology is real and therefore a transwoman isn’t a woman, they’re a transwoman, and that’s a different category to someone assigned female at birth. By going that far you are really putting a very very large wedge between you and the trans community

Nailed the issue, succinctly here.

@pombear thank you for the transcript.

I’m fascinated by your question. You’ve said that I’ve asserted that biology is real as though that’s something controversial. I think once we start saying that scientific facts are not real then, then we really are in a difficult phase which I don’t think, as it happens, helps transwomen or transmen either.

Imagine being the presenter of PM and being shown up by Damian Green, of all people.

‘I actually think that highly intelligent people find it easier to believe nonsense than the less intelligent.’

I think people would say that.

Poor Evan! His horror that the doublethink wasn’t being doublethunk was palpable.

My horror however, is that an interviewer can be asking whether someone is really saying that “biology is real”.

Can we sue the BBC?

I would like Stephen Nolan to take over PM

Thanks for the transcript pombear . The disbelief at biology being real and TW not being W is absurd. ED really needs to recognise reality not ideology.

Poor Evan! His horror that the doublethink wasn’t being doublethunk was palpable.

Love this!!

It was this comment from Evan Davies that really got me:

they’re a transwoman, and that’s a different category to someone assigned female at birth. By going that far

"Going that far"?! As if maintaining a view that has been mainstream and commonplace since the word "woman" was coined and not accepting the new idea that TWAW is going to some sort of extreme? Do many people really regard a sex-based definition as "going that far"?

Love this. There are some very self important people getting important lessons in real biology this week.

I heard this on the radio driving home from work. I nearly crashed the car... just fantastic!

His horror that the doublethink wasn’t being doublethunk was palpable

🤣🤣🤣

Thank you for the transcript, pombear. Much appreciated.

Get this:
"The Conservative Party has been watching over recent weeks as some senior Labour politicians have been quizzed and sometimes struggled to answer questions about non-trans (sic) and trans people. Trans people, those who identify as a gender different from that assigned at birth.

The questions were about women, defining a woman. The nerve of this BBC numpty.

@MsGoodenough

I actually think that highly intelligent people find it easier to believe nonsense than the less intelligent. I think there is some research supporting this. E.g. academics are used the bending their minds around difficult subjects so they can bend their minds to things that make no sense.

Identifies as intelligent. Used to assuming his knowledge is superior to others. Easier to accuse women of being bigoted than to stop and think.

Thanks from me too, Pombear .
I really do think that our thinking politicians are edging towards the only possible conclusion - the GRA has to go. You can't have one class of women, and a different class of nearly-women. The thing just won't fly. However are the single-sex exemptions going to function?

Fantastic transcription work pombear, thanks! DG came across as very sensible I think.

As if maintaining a view that has been mainstream and commonplace since the word "woman" was coined and not accepting the new idea that TWAW is going to some sort of extreme? Do many people really regard a sex-based definition as "going that far"?

I really hate the ludicrous gaslighting of these people. What defines a "trans woman" in their eyes? Literally any male person who declares they are a woman, at any time. It's absurd and I'm very glad its starting to be challenged.

Personally, I don't think such an obvious bigot should be presenting the BBC's flagship afternoon news programme. But the BBC does like to play fast and loose with its aim of being objective and independent

Yes, this. (Late to the party - I've just binged-listed to Stephen Nolan's Stonewall podcast over the last 2 days).