Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 4

[Whatamesssss]

Thread one, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Thread two, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505825-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-2?pg=1

Thread three, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4507443-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-3

Abbreviations:
BC = Ben Cooper QC, counsel for
MF = Maya Forstater - Claimant
AP = Anya Palmer, assisting BC
OD = Olivia Dobbie, counsel for the respondents
EJ = Employment judge, leading the panel
Panel = any one of the 3 members

CGDE (CGD Europe) – Respondent 1

CGD = Centre for Global Development – Respondent 2

LE = Luke Easley, Vice president for HR and operations at CGD, first witness for CGD
AG = Amanda Glassman, Chief Operating Officer, Senior Fellow and Board Secretary of CGD and a Trustee of CGD(Europe), second witness for CGD
MP = Mark Plant, Chief Operating Officer of CGD Europe, third witness for CGD
MA = Masood Ahmed, President of CGD and Chair of the Board of CGDE – Respondent 3, fourth witness for CGD

EM = Ellen MacKenzie, an off-stage character at CGD, involved in much that went on.

Maya's website has lots of relevant information and is collating the live tweets.
www.hiyamaya.net

twitter.com/tribunaltweets is the account to look at for the live tweets. Plus some live posting and discussion on these threads.

It is all online. If you want to watch you need to email the tribunal for a log in to [email protected]

They will send you pin number and a link to log in to the tribunal.

@NecessaryScene

Maybe you are a secret lurker already!

Or who's to say not a prolific long-time poster...?

@NecessaryScene

Indeed! Shame she'll have to stay in the closet on this topic at least for a while.

Vaishnavi's film is fantastic - she came to FiLiA 2021 to speak and will hopefully come and speak at FiLiA 2022 in Cardiff.

www.filia.org.uk/speakers

There's a more important (binding) Employment Appeal Tribunal ruling due out imminently on a similar issue which I don't know which way it is likely to go.

Which one is this?

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

I’m glad someone of OD’s standing is involved in the case. We need strong representation on both sides to really hammer this out. We want all the issues, potential arguments and questions set out. The more daylight the better.

Waves to OD.

Absolutely! I want to understand, to learn something (something positive, not 'how easily you can get someone to say something').

twitter.com/iseult/status/1504170839880736769?cxt=HHwWgoC9iZra8d8pAAAA

more on the red/black poster!

Eresh, although the Maya F case has already had an EAT decision which said her view on the issue was protected (and the current case is just the return to the tribunal bit of the case. The EAT decision already decided will not be changed no matter what this decision here says and presumably is the same level of tribunal as the other important EAT case mentioned.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10644465/Boris-Johnson-jumps-trans-row-saying-basic-facts-biology-remain-overwhelmingly-important.html

Apologies if this has been stated already and I've missed it., but has the judge given any idea when the decision will come?

@HardyBuckette

Apologies if this has been stated already and I've missed it., but has the judge given any idea when the decision will come?

Got the impression it would be some weeks after 7 April - so into May possibly.

Maya's thank you video suggests perhaps May. twitter.com/MForstater/status/1506623757762408451

It was JK Rowling's support of MF that triggered a conversation in our household. My well intentioned DC believes in diversity and being kind, which includes TWAW and was v critical of JKR when it all kicked off about her support for MF. But JKR just did not strike me as a ‘bad’ person. I too went and read JK's essay… hadn't read anything about the whole debate up to that point and hadn't realised that people could just ‘identify’ into a sex class and not transition in the sense that I had assumed ie Jan Morris. I also learnt a lot very quickly thanks to the FWR board and also want to thank Mumsnet HQ for allowing free speech and freedom of thought to prevail.

Love the two versions of the video, one that can be safely viewed from a fainting couch, and one for people who understand that not everything that comes in read and black is for Nazis

And now, we wait…

@DomesticatedZombie

twitter.com/iseult/status/1504170839880736769?cxt=HHwWgoC9iZra8d8pAAAA

more on the red/black poster!

Iseult’s Twitter name made me smile - “no identity - just a corpse!”

Thanks to mumsnet for allowing debate on this subject.

I'm glad that both sides have had such sound representation.

Fingers crossed for you Maya .

There's a more important (binding) Employment Appeal Tribunal ruling due out imminently on a similar issue which I don't know which way it is likely to go.
I would also like to know which one this is? Is it the one about the doctor who worked for work & pensions?

The proposed new Online Safety Bill could hamper Mumsnet's ability to host debate if it goes through.

See Justine's post here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_campaigns/4507995-MNHQ-here-Breaking-news-on-the-Online-Safety-Bill

Phew, just caught up. Thanks everyone for your insight. Well done Maya, your strength is enviable. Thank you for standing up for women 💐

@Manderleyagain

There's a more important (binding) Employment Appeal Tribunal ruling due out imminently on a similar issue which I don't know which way it is likely to go. I would also like to know which one this is? Is it the one about the doctor who worked for work & pensions?

Is that the Mackereth vs DWP one?

This one?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10507853/Christian-doctor-David-Mackereth-sacked-trans-views-fight-High-Court.html

I think having had a look it's maybe Higgs v Farmor school EAT appeal which was held a few weeks ago, judgement pending. Is that right @CrowUpNorth ?

www.personneltoday.com/hr/employment-appeal-tribunal-k-higgs-v-farmors-school-2022-eat-christian-lgbt/

Thank you for your courage Maya in standing up and showing the world that Sex Matters What a woman

[quote BoreOfWhabylon]The proposed new Online Safety Bill could hamper Mumsnet's ability to host debate if it goes through.

See Justine's post here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_campaigns/4507995-MNHQ-here-Breaking-news-on-the-Online-Safety-Bill[/quote]
It’s essential we should speak up about the harms and restrictions of this bill. We’re losing the freedom to assemble to show dissent in real life and online. This is Hannah Arendt’s Origins of Totalitarianism being treated like an instructional manual. This is the soft version of social capital and the restrictions for those who challenge and dissent no matter how rationally and politely.

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]I think having had a look it's maybe Higgs v Farmor school EAT appeal which was held a few weeks ago, judgement pending. Is that right @CrowUpNorth ?

www.personneltoday.com/hr/employment-appeal-tribunal-k-higgs-v-farmors-school-2022-eat-christian-lgbt/[/quote]
Reading that article has made me really concerned. Assuming that there is nothing massive that I am missing, I fervently hope that she wins.

That's what I thought. Assuming that's the full story, it's terrifying.

I haven't seen a thread about that case, I think it should be talked about.