Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 4

[Whatamesssss]

Thread one, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Thread two, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505825-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-2?pg=1

Thread three, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4507443-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-3

Abbreviations:
BC = Ben Cooper QC, counsel for
MF = Maya Forstater - Claimant
AP = Anya Palmer, assisting BC
OD = Olivia Dobbie, counsel for the respondents
EJ = Employment judge, leading the panel
Panel = any one of the 3 members

CGDE (CGD Europe) – Respondent 1

CGD = Centre for Global Development – Respondent 2

LE = Luke Easley, Vice president for HR and operations at CGD, first witness for CGD
AG = Amanda Glassman, Chief Operating Officer, Senior Fellow and Board Secretary of CGD and a Trustee of CGD(Europe), second witness for CGD
MP = Mark Plant, Chief Operating Officer of CGD Europe, third witness for CGD
MA = Masood Ahmed, President of CGD and Chair of the Board of CGDE – Respondent 3, fourth witness for CGD

EM = Ellen MacKenzie, an off-stage character at CGD, involved in much that went on.

Maya's website has lots of relevant information and is collating the live tweets.
www.hiyamaya.net

twitter.com/tribunaltweets is the account to look at for the live tweets. Plus some live posting and discussion on these threads.

It is all online. If you want to watch you need to email the tribunal for a log in to [email protected]

They will send you pin number and a link to log in to the tribunal.

'strong, outspoken and often irritating' Again, pipedown, wheesht...

He does keep talking about things being on all fours. Is that a legal term?

'I read only about 25% of the tweets before making up my mind they were fairly innocuous but upon closer inspection, prompted by you, I now see they clearly are not. Lesson learned, and my thanks to you.'

Also email from LE, this one to HS. No wonder he was so wet in his evidence. He had already signed his confession as a possible heretic, and couldn't afford to step out of line again.

strong, outspoken and often irritating = female

"strong, confident, provocative and challenging" = male, obvs

No, I think he just likes talking about it.

@DomesticatedZombie

He does keep talking about things being on all fours. Is that a legal term?

“On all fours” is a metaphor used by legal practitioners to describe a previous case with facts that are substantially similar to the case at issue.

@tabbycatstripy

'I read only about 25% of the tweets before making up my mind they were fairly innocuous but upon closer inspection, prompted by you, I now see they clearly are not. Lesson learned, and my thanks to you.'

Also email from LE, this one to HS. No wonder he was so wet in his evidence. He had already signed his confession as a possible heretic, and couldn't afford to step out of line again.

Yes - means it matches the fact pattern of other case law

Replied to wrong post - sorry! Was talking about the phrase "on all fours"

Being on all fours means, broadly, that something exactly fits within a legal rule - it meets all the criteria you need to meet

:)

I shouldn't make jokes.

Email from HS when the whole thing kicked off:

'Cool. We are chatting later today. I totally understand where everyone is coming from. But insert the word gay or African American into some of those tweets and I’m not sure how it would really be different. It probably is but I can’t tell how. '

I can. Funnily enough, it's when you ask people, and actually engage with what they're saying, rather than sending snide emails round calling them 'dumb', that you get the information you need.

Who is HS?

Holly Shulman, Comms Director

Thanks!

I’m also fascinated to see that email from the woman who worked on the FPFW video. Saul Bass immediately jumped into my mind when I saw it; in fact I even dug out my copy of Anatomy of a Murder to compare.

It underlines yet again the jaw-dropping narrowness and ignorance of this ideology. Nobody has a hinterland; nobody seems to have any knowledge or awareness about anything before the Year Zero of their espousal of the cause - or if they do, they can’t/won’t admit it.

This can't finish this morning. OD has 40mins for rebuttal. I should think BC might want to reserve some time as well.

Is it possible to run into the afternoon?

Thanks re 'all fours'. I had a quite different understanding of it.

It underlines yet again the jaw-dropping narrowness and ignorance of this ideology. Nobody has a hinterland; nobody seems to have any knowledge or awareness about anything before the Year Zero of their espousal of the cause - or if they do, they can’t/won’t admit it.

Even if they didn't get the cultural reference, which makes me sad, if you watched the video it was totally unambiguous that the hand represented the government - it was shown at one point as giving the gender recognition certificate to a more human hand.

You would expect a schoolchild to be able to answer a "who does the hand represent" question in some sort of media studies course...

And this is a think tank!

It's tanking, for sure.

Tanks for that.

Thanks re 'all fours'. I had a quite different understanding of it.

How's the court sketch going, btw?

OD is going to reply and is ready (and sounds like she's raging).

@tabbycatstripy

OD is going to reply and is ready (and sounds like she's raging).

Maybe it was the magpie comment.

OD sounding outraged that anyone would want to draw an analogy with race.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

This can't finish this morning. OD has 40mins for rebuttal. I should think BC might want to reserve some time as well.

Is it possible to run into the afternoon?

Well, OD has helped me out with the first part of my enquiring as she's responding now.

If BC has a spare 30mins (so to speak), I don't know what happens or if he has the right to comment on OD's clarifications.