Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 2

[Sophoclesthefox]

Forgive the presumption, @Mforstater, but you’re probably busy in the pub right now, or passing on all of the fan mail to you legal team so I’ve made a new thread to carry on the fascinating discussion.

Round up your cats, rabbits and weasels, and let’s go!

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From thread one, here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Hi all,

Thank you so much for all your support: emotional, intellectual, financial, spiritual(!) reading the Mumsnet feminism board is where this all started for me!

The case starts tomorrow.

It is all online. If you want to watch you need to email the tribunal for a log in to [email protected]

It kicks off at 10am - the first bit will be "admin" between the judges and the lawyers working out the timings, issues and any reporting restrictions hmm.

Once that is all sorted the judge and the panel will go away to read (probably for the rest of Monday and all of Tuesday)

I will most likely give evidence Wednesday and Thursday.

@tribunaltweets will be tweeting the whole thing (assuming they get permission from the judge)

Links to papers will go up throughout the case at www.hiyamaya.net.

Any other questions I am happy to answer them (apart from the ones where I have to say "that is for the tribunal to hear"...)

I have made a spectators guide with FAQs etc here

Lots of love

Maya

'Amplification' came to my attention in autobiography about the first Obama administration and the experience of the women staff getting heard. Could be Anita Dunn's book. Dude-bros need to be spoken over everywhere it seems.
I though I had read (the illustrated statement afair) that the culture at CGD had been described as male-dominated. Well, this debacle is female-lead with the males 'amplifying' like good allies.
Nice to see that Global Impact are no more.

I've just been reading through old threads.

First tribunal hearing with Judge Tayler in Nov 19

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3743214-maya-forstater-court-case?pg=1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3747575-maya-forstater-case-thread-2-for-the-mumsnet-massive

I think we also learned a new irregular verb today:
I educate
You debate
She proselytizes

Maya Forstater appeal skeleton

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4228233-Maya-Forstaters-appeal-skeleton

@InvisibleDragon

I think we also learned a new irregular verb today: I educate You debate She proselytizes

Spot on.

Nice to see that Global Impact are no more.

Who are/were Global Impact?

MrsSteveMcDonald

You've missed my personal favourite, "I have a great deal of discomfort discussing this. (Exhales loudly)"

As my old dad would have said: I bet you do, Sunshine.

Global Impact were the external DEI company that wrote the two versions of a report (one 'vague' - for MF perusal, one extremely critical - for management eyes) and delivered the diversity training at CGD. The illustrated statement from paragraph 104 is where I began, I think. Both founders are employed elsewhere as far as I can tell.

Love the irregular verb invisible dragon

@tabbycatstripy

Again, she 'refused to see how her language was seen by CGD as exclusionary...' in his witness statement.

They wouldn't tell her. They specifically set out not to tell her, or to explain to her how she could express her beliefs - in or out of work - without being 'offensive and exclusionary.'

That is because they believed (or agreed, by consensus) that they were those things in essence, not in expression.

Not one care either that the trans ideology is offensive and exclusionary to most women.

@ThrowawayBerna

Global Impact were the external DEI company that wrote the two versions of a report (one 'vague' - for MF perusal, one extremely critical - for management eyes) and delivered the diversity training at CGD. The illustrated statement from paragraph 104 is where I began, I think. Both founders are employed elsewhere as far as I can tell.

Thank you.

I remembered the 2 versions of the report and the admonition not to engage Maya in discussion as she knows the topic very well, but I didn't recall who they were. There's been so much emphasis on QI that I think I lost the name Global Impact somewhere.

My highlight from today was when Ben said 'Penis' and she had an attack of the vapours. In 2022. Just wanted to shout "Penis, penis, penis" at her.

think we also learned a new irregular verb today:
I educate
You debate
She proselytizes

Quite.

I thought there was a fascinating and rather telling moment right at the end of today's testimony, when BC was asking MP to confirm - or rather, was trying to get him to acknowledge that he had already conceded - that the legal document describing the grant budget as referring to MF as a consultant was false. MP simply wouldn't give a straight answer, despite his answers having shown that it wasn't true - to the point where BC actually laughed, as though he couldn't quite believe the brick wall on something that was absolutely clear as a matter of fact. The judge got involved too at that point, and said something like, "He just wants a straight answer on whether it's correct, we're not making a value judgement." It summed up for me something about this whole debate, the sort of way that one side wants to start from material reality and then make arguments, whereas for the other side the reality is so loaded with other values that a straight statement of what is demonstrably the case is an aggressive attack which must be resisted. But on this occasion it wasn't even about sex and gender.

I suppose what I'm saying is that if you say X and then cannot answer a straight question about whether the document that says specifically not-X is true or false... perhaps it's not surprising that you might not admit the contradictions in gender ideology?

Every time someone mentions Quantum Impact I think ooh, sounds like a crap team on the Apprentice.

Maya Forstater appeal 2021

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4053329-Maya-Forstater-finally-has-a-date-for-her-appeal

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4231025-Maya-Forstater-s-appeal-discussion-thread-2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4267088-Victory-for-Maya

Every time someone mentions Quantum Impact I think ooh, sounds like a crap team on the Apprentice.

You're not the only one

@InvisibleDragon

I think we also learned a new irregular verb today: I educate You debate She proselytizes

Excellent. Though perhaps could be amended to:

"She/he/they/xe proselytizes"

BC and AG going out for dinner

BC orders a hotdog
AG cries
BC 'What? I didn't mention penis'
AG cries intensely

So sorry..yes.it's Quantum impact..who have made like a particle and disappeared, but not without impact.

So it would have been fine for Maya to discuss this if she'd said ''cis'' women...

Basically, 'it's fine for her to talk about her beliefs as long as she uses language that goes against hers and validates mine. It doesn't matter if she finds the language of my beliefs offensive, because I've decided that mine are right and good, and hers are wrong and bad, therefore her offence is irrelevant and that's that'.

Sounds fair

@InvisibleDragon

I think we also learned a new irregular verb today: I educate You debate She proselytizes

Masterpiece, brava.

Does anyone know whether this case is being covered anywhere in the US media? Will it impact on CGDs image and reputation over there?

So, the gender ideology version of the Emperor's New Clothes

Little Boy (BC) "The Emperor has no clothes on, i can see his penis!"

Gender Courtier 1 " Please don't say penis, it makes me feel queasy"

Gender Courtier 2 "The emperor identifies as fully clothed. Hush little boy"

THE END

@BenCooperisaGod

So, the gender ideology version of the Emperor's New Clothes

Little Boy (BC) "The Emperor has no clothes on, i can see his penis!"

Gender Courtier 1 " Please don't say penis, it makes me feel queasy"

Gender Courtier 2 "The emperor identifies as fully clothed. Hush little boy"

THE END

Quoting this purely for reasons of highlighting your username, @BenCooperisaGod.

"She/he/they/xe proselytizes"

How I love this thread

Ben may be masterful, but we cant forget he is getting paid for this gig and win or lose will come out of it looking pretty excellent. Maya has real skin in this game. The result will have an immediate and direct impact on her. I don't believe in gods, but i do believe in heroes and she is one.