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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DH has questions after watching Kellie JK

73 replies

Vaginasaurus · 30/12/2021 14:00

I have just asked DH to watch the video with KJK and James Max. He has several questions as a result and is asking if anyone has statistics. DH supports me in everything such as sports, women’s spaces etc. What he would like are statistics about TWs surgery.

Do we have verified statistics as to how many TW actually have their full genitalia removed? TIA

OP posts:
BingoLingFucker · 30/12/2021 14:03

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

This goes into the statistics I think.

bishophaha · 30/12/2021 14:04

Well, that would initially require a coherent definition of a transwoman, (which is determined by an unseen and unmeasured feeling) - so makes stats difficult.

I'm sure there are figures out there and someone will be along in a minute, but initially I'd go to fairplayforwomen.com - there are lots of resources there even if not specifically about documented surgery.

Datun · 30/12/2021 14:15

As far as I remember, the figures come from transgender organisations themselves. GIRES I think (or possibly gendered intelligence, I get them mixed up).

Vaginasaurus · 30/12/2021 14:20

Thanks to all who have answered so far. I would have tried to find this info myself, but I have a brain injury and cannot find my former research skills. Also, apologies if my posts are incoherent!

OP posts:
SomePosters · 30/12/2021 14:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

bishophaha · 30/12/2021 14:34

BingoLing has it - the data from GIRES is linked there.

Please note mods that I have just copied the text from the website so I acknowledge that talk guidelines don't necessarily allow how the people concerned are described, but consider this copied text for comment etc rather than my own words.


How many transgender people medically transition?

In 2011, GIRES [ www.gires.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Monitoring-Gender-Nonconformity.pdf ] estimated that only 20% of the UK transgender population were likely to seek medical treatment for their condition at some stage. Based on a UK trans prevalence of 1% and assuming a 50:50 split of males and females that means there are 200,000 male-born transgender people in the UK will no body modifications whatsoever. Of the 50,000 trans-identifying males that do seek medical treatment most of these would be expected to be undergoing hormone treatment and/or breast implants. Only a very small proportion of this 20% will have genital reconstruction surgery.

In 2016, a meta-analysis [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27045261/ ] of 27 studies estimated a rate of approx 10 per 100,000 of the population (0.01%) have a transgender diagnosis and/or surgical or hormonal treatment. In contrast 355 per 100,000 of the population(0.35%) self-identity as transgender. This means only 2.8% of the transgender community is undergoing any gender-affirming treatment with the vast majority 97.2% simply self-identity with no modifications to their sexed body whatsoever.

No one knows for sure how many transwomen keep their penis, but there are fewer than 10 surgeons in the UK who can undertake the relevant operation. Even if they each performed one operation every single day this would still only represent an absolute maximum of 3,500 surgeries each year. The actual number performed is likely to be very much smaller than this. An estimate of just a few hundred operations each year would not be unreasonable.

There is also data available from the US HERE showing that genital surgery is very rare. In this study (sampling 20% of all outpatient hospital discharges in the US) there were only a few hundred genital surgeries performed each year. (205 in 2012, 250 in 2013, 345 in 2014). This suggests that between 1000-2000 genital surgeries were performed across the whole of the US each. If the trans community in the US represents 1% of the US population this means we’d expect there to be in the region of 3 million people identifying as trans in the US. This means less than 0.1% of the trans community undergoes genital surgery each year supporting our conclusion that the vast majority of males who identify as women retain their penis.

Conclusions:
We don’t know how many transgender people there are in the UK but estimates are up to 1%. The vast majority do not have a GRC and so remain legally the sex they were born. The vast majority also do not seek medical treatment so retain the anatomy of their birth.
Contrary to public perception the overwhelming majority of male-born transgender people retain their penis and are fully male-bodied.

FeckTheMagicDragon · 30/12/2021 14:34

Imagine being obsessed with invading woman's single sex spaces.

bishophaha · 30/12/2021 14:36

@SomePosters

Imagine being so obsessed with what’s in someone else’s pants
so obsessed as to what? Did your post cut off?

No-one's mentioned pants. Do you usually bring up underwear apropos of nothing in conversations?

334bu · 30/12/2021 14:37

Imagine being so obsessed with what’s in someone else’s pants

Ask that of the female prisoners being forced to share showers with male sex offenders and then there's also the homeless women being forced to share sleeping accommodation with people with penises. Ask them that question.

NoraEphronsTurkeyNeck · 30/12/2021 14:38

@SomePosters

Imagine being so obsessed with what’s in someone else’s pants
Women are 'obsessed' because of the potential damage those genitals can wreak in vulnerable women. But you knew that Hmm
Shedmistress · 30/12/2021 14:39

Even if 10-20% of men who call themselves women have their genitalia removed/remodelled, what then?

If it was 50%, what then?

Or 100%, what then?

The issue is men. Cock and balls or no cock and balls.

aliasundercover · 30/12/2021 14:46

Imagine being so fucking daft you believe people can change sex

Gumbomambo · 30/12/2021 14:47

Imagine having the luxury of not caring what’s in someone’s pants.

Polly99 · 30/12/2021 14:50

This US study puts "bottom surgery" for transgender women (ie biological men) at no more than 13%.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6626314/

GoatsAndBarley · 30/12/2021 14:53

@SomePosters

Imagine being so obsessed with what’s in someone else’s pants
Imagine being so hard of thinking to not understand the risks of people with penises in women's sex segregated spaces.
VestofAbsurdity · 30/12/2021 14:53

@Shedmistress

Even if 10-20% of men who call themselves women have their genitalia removed/remodelled, what then?

If it was 50%, what then?

Or 100%, what then?

The issue is men. Cock and balls or no cock and balls.

Quite.

Once male always male, stay out of female spaces and services.

PamDenick · 30/12/2021 14:54

Barely any.
Even Bruce/Caitlin Jenner admitted to merely ‘retiring’ rather than removing…

Some Men may live wearing skirts, lipstick and Womanface, but you know what they love more? Their willies.

PamDenick · 30/12/2021 14:55

NB not scientifically researched.
But you can barely get a GP appt these days, so willyectomy departments are few and far between…

Omicrone · 30/12/2021 14:58

@SomePosters

Imagine being so obsessed with what’s in someone else’s pants
Maybe if the male class of the human race stopped assaulting women using the contents of their pants, women would stop being so obsessed with what's in people's pants....
WomanStillNotAFeeling · 30/12/2021 15:02

@SomePosters

Imagine being so obsessed with what’s in someone else’s pants
It’s what was in the pants of the ‘gender fluid’ person that was used to rape me
MrsWooster · 30/12/2021 15:03

Someposters utilising the Streisand Effect again. It’s weirdly impressive.

KimThomas · 30/12/2021 15:07

@SomePosters

Imagine being so obsessed with what’s in someone else’s pants
Like clockwork.
Vaginasaurus · 30/12/2021 16:07

DH says thanks to those who have answered so helpfully. I appreciate the help!

OP posts:
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 30/12/2021 16:17

@SomePosters

Imagine being so obsessed with what’s in someone else’s pants
Imagine electing to interpret everything in bad faith, especially when a specific enquiry was well-crafted as search engine terms go.
youkiddingme · 30/12/2021 16:18

Imagine using disingenuous soundbites to stifle debate.