David Aaronovitch Review of Helen Joyce's Book

[Igneococcus]

In the Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a9738a12-e57d-11eb-afdb-c7b01afbcfc5?shareToken=bde4e05d2955fb1682ae3da09be1f707

Final paragaph:

"I’m off the fence. I will call people by the name and pronouns they tell me they want to be called by. I am prepared to defend their right not to be discriminated against at work and in shops, to defend them against bullying and harassment. But as Joyce says so passionately, that doesn’t change reality. A penis is a male sex organ, men don’t have babies. Women exist."

This is the article about the culture wars, or about the non-existence of them:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/27750df2-be3a-11eb-a904-b6ed9daa84aa?shareToken=f901f0906daae00cedac40744e604379

I think that DA has been somewhat GC for quite a while now - he was calling people out quite harshly on twitter for refusing to condemn the violent and sexual threats against JK Rowling.

That's about the extent of Barnsey's contribution to the discussion that there will be badgherkin (is there such a thing as a bad gherkin?), that the progressives have won.
It's pretty much all that Barnsey ever says, just repeats it over and over again.

@BadgertheBodger

I had the absolute pleasure yesterday of my 50 odd year old male colleague launching into a “do you know what I heard on the radio earlier? They’re trying to get rid of the word woman! Bloody ridiculous etc etc”. Then I told him about Laurel Hubbard, he was outraged and wanted to know what could be done so I offered a few options on who to write to

The more men get there the better, I’m not even bothered it’s taken them a ridiculous amount of time let’s just go for it get the men onside and then hopefully things will start to change

Do you know what station he was listening to?

Great review. I think OJ sent him over the edge a few weeks ago when he was arguing with him on twitter, accusing him of transphobia. I like David, don't always agree with him, but he's rational which is a good starter.

This is a book that needs to be read by those who think they might disagree with her far more than by those who already agree,

Like that's going to happen. Bless him, he's still got a lot to learn.

@Mollyollydolly

Great review. I think OJ sent him over the edge a few weeks ago when he was arguing with him on twitter, accusing him of transphobia. I like David, don't always agree with him, but he's rational which is a good starter.

Ooh what was David's 'crime'?

It was this thread .. I could only see half of it (blocked by Jones) but he really pissed David off.
twitter.com/DAaronovitch/status/1396472947947327492

Just had a look on Twitter. David tweeted his article and now he's being accused of promoting anti-semitic conspiracy theories.

This appears to be fuelled by some Katy Montgomerie tweets:

twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1415946905482321921?s=19

As usual, no one has read the book and no one intends to.

My book just arrived, so I'm off to find out exactly what Helen said.

[quote Mollyollydolly]It was this thread .. I could only see half of it (blocked by Jones) but he really pissed David off.
twitter.com/DAaronovitch/status/1396472947947327492[/quote]
Ah thanks. I think that looks familiar. I'm not on twitter any more, so can see Owen's tweets (he had me blocked too). Here is the context.

If Katy Montgomerie told me the sky was blue, I'd still want to check for myself. One of the most disingenuous, hyperbolic TRAs out there, IMO.

Fragrant headtilt Montgomerie likes to think they have the authority to speak on literally everything. I might suggest that comes from their socialization. Let the reader understand what this means.

So, presumably Aaronovitch will face the right wing bigot response, given that LOJ disagrees with him (Everyone who disagrees with Jones is automatically linked to the far right, I believe). It's usually that or the 'I am very disappointed in you' response that Cleese got. Obviously, if they think they can get away with shrieking about the man being involved in genocide if he agrees with the witches, they'll do that, which is what made Stephen King capitulate, iirc.

Funnily enough, it's only the women that tend to get the rape and death threats. Almost like they know what a woman is after all.

There are already loads of tweets saying it's anti-semitic. Strange how none of these people realise it's anti-semitic in itself to see criticism of a millionaire's actions as anti-semitic. They are the one's amplifying a trope. It's garbage but the lie will go around the world and be the standard criticism of the book from TRAs. Seen it a thousand times before.

I've read the book (preorder arrived early). I didn't get 'angry' or even 'polemical' from it. But otherwise, it's a good review. Re: it's the people who disagree who need to read it more. Well, ideally, yes. But even if the people who are on the fence or unaware read it and see what's happening, that's enough.

It is a brilliant book. And far from being angry (which would be, frankly, justified), HJ has spoken about keeping emotions out of it and using basic thinking and reasoning to call it out. I think that came up in the interview she did with Jo Bartosch on The Critic podcast.

Mind you, it still doesn't beat my favourite review, which appeared on Twitter yesterday ...

I do like John!

So, an update on the 'angry woman' comment in the article -

One of the comments, from Orie, was

About time mate. Good review.

(Love the fact, though, that in a review defending women you called the female author “too angry”. How many male authors get called “too angry”?)

David has responded with

I take your point, though I think I’d have written that whatever the sex of the writer.

Has " hateful transphobic screed" been mentioned anywhere yet? That's one of the usual stock phrases.

Good article.

Half way though the book and so far very interesting.

Am now looking at the leading trans voices with different eyes to see who fits into which category.

Guess I am not allowed to list them though?

Seriously, talk me through it, how is the book antisemitic? Or is it because of the straw clutching nonsense that Harry Potter books are antisemitic and therefore QEWTF

@bellinisurge

Seriously, talk me through it, how is the book antisemitic? Or is it because of the straw clutching nonsense that Harry Potter books are antisemitic and therefore QEWTF

I think it all stems from this article, as some of the people identified are jewish. They seem to have confused 'criticising people who are jewish' with 'criticising people for being jewish'.

If there's more to it, it's nothing I've seen so far.

thefederalist.com/2018/02/20/rich-white-men-institutionalizing-transgender-ideology/

I haven't read the book yet, so don't know if Helen Joyce has even mentioned the funding aspect.

I will tell you next week (mines arriving tomorrow).