Maya Forstater's appeal skeleton

[Mollyollydolly]

Saw this on twitter and thought it deserved a thread to itself.

As Jason Braler (employment lawyer) says on twitter "It's more a thesis than a traditional skeleton, but it certainly drives home the points from every conceivable angle.
It may also be the only ever EAT skeleton to have 4 references to Orwell"

hiyamaya.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/forstater-eat-claimant-skeleton-argument-plus-low-res-pages-1-50.pdf

Thanks AnneofScreamFables, it now all makes much more sense especially the route the other side took this morning.

Love the pony metaphor @ArabellaScott

The passages to which I've drawn your attention show that Miller's beliefs are less cogent and less measured than hers.

Poor Harry.

Not disagreeing, but still. Poor Harry.

I like the pony metaphor, Arabella.
I have bought a cracking little welsh pony for my eldest DD. I want to identify as eight years old and four stone and jump some logs in the woods! If DPony's legs buckle, is it because he hates me? Or because I could never be 8yo/4st again, and that's just the annoying truth.

It's not a flippant point to note that GM appeared or at any rate might reasonably appear to people who look at his, who look at their profile, to be a man with a beard.

I do hope that GMs photo appears in the bundles somewhere, because that really does drive the point home.

Surely, what you need is a high horse?

Nice demolition by BC of the Phillip/Pips Bunce argument JR used particularly the fact that Phillip/Pips doesn't have a GRC and doesn't identify as a woman.

Ben makes a blinding point by forgetting GM's preferred pronouns twice!

How can you NOT 'misgender' people? I have no idea how most people I refer to in the third person identify. I have also very little hope of remembering if someone tells me as I can't even remember names. If someone refers to someone obviously male as 'she' and I don't know who they are talking about are they allowed to say 'male' to describe their most notable feature?

Some years ago my son did spee h and language therapy and they spent time working on correct pronouns. How will this work? If there is a picture of a girl on a card how will he know whether to use he or she?

@WhatyoutalkingaboutWillis

Ben makes a blinding point by forgetting GM's preferred pronouns twice!

😂. I really hope this gets the attention it deserves.

I love Ben the wee beardy superstar.

Ben is kicking bottom here.

@Mollyollydolly

I love Ben the wee beardy superstar.

Not all beards are bad after all

I do hope that GMs photo appears in the bundles somewhere, because that really does drive the point home

I think Murray and Bunce should both be projected at 2 x life size on the wall of the court.

@WhatyoutalkingaboutWillis

Ben makes a blinding point by forgetting GM's preferred pronouns twice!

Classic.

I have an inherited blood disease that only women get. No man ever gets it, ever.

Tricky

I can see how it might be yes.

Just read GM's photo was shown to the judge and he flinched.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I do hope that GMs photo appears in the bundles somewhere, because that really does drive the point home

I think Murray and Bunce should both be projected at 2 x life size on the wall of the court.

And Dolezal.

What is the 'next hearing in the ET' that Ben is referring to? Will the Employment Tribunal reconvene separately from this appeal?

This is a preliminary issue. If the belief is protected then the ET will need to go ahead and decide if MF was discriminated against and effectively dismissed for her protected beliefs.

Yes. (If I am right) there are 2 elements 1) whether the original judge was correct that Maya’s beliefs were not protected. If she is successful in this appeal and it is decided that her beliefs are protected, then 2) the next stage is whether her employer discriminated against her given that they acted based on her beliefs. If she fails in 1 then I think she doesn’t have grounds to move to 2

Wouldn’t deliberate misgendering be the same as calling someone fat. It may be factual/biological but it’s rude and unnecessary in most situations, safeguarding and health reasons are exceptions. Both would come under bullying policy and rightly so.

No. Calling a male ‘she’ impacts me and my material reality of womanhood as well as the safeguarding and health reasons that you mention.

It is compelled speech. I will not say it. I probably wouldn’t refer to a pronoun at all, unless it was relevant, but I reserve the right in a free society to correctly identify anyone I chose.

If the belief is protected then the ET will need to go ahead and decide if MF was discriminated against and effectively dismissed for her protected beliefs.

And CGD will have to argue that their views on her protected beliefs didn't influence their decision to terminate her employment at all. No sir.

One joy of this case is that it's brought Gregor Murray and Pips Bunce to a whole new, and rather startled, audience.