Maya Forstater's appeal skeleton

[Mollyollydolly]

Saw this on twitter and thought it deserved a thread to itself.

As Jason Braler (employment lawyer) says on twitter "It's more a thesis than a traditional skeleton, but it certainly drives home the points from every conceivable angle.
It may also be the only ever EAT skeleton to have 4 references to Orwell"

hiyamaya.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/forstater-eat-claimant-skeleton-argument-plus-low-res-pages-1-50.pdf

@Mollyollydolly

Just read GM's photo was shown to the judge and he flinched.

Flinched? Bloody hell.

Reserved judgement

Not surprising really. I imagine the Judge will want to craft this one carefully.

@nauticant

One joy of this case is that it's brought Gregor Murray and Pips Bunce to a whole new, and rather startled, audience.

😊. It's glorious.

No judgement today, should be in the next couple of months. Complex and detailed matters to consider.

Had a feeling that might be the case.

Judgment reserved ie not today.

Sunlight!

The judgment in these cases are often quite detailed, aren't they?

It will be very interesting to see how they unravel the different implications and whether or not they account for them in the decision.

Or maybe, they will just say yes it's a belief worthy of respect. Job done.

I think it's going to be a biggie. The case has got "political" and "further appeal" all over it.

Or maybe, they will just say yes it's a belief worthy of respect. Job done.
It would be, certainly. But I want a little more... More sunlight, more spelled out logic, more everything. It's too important to be wrapped up with a one liner.

This quote needs to be put on billboards everywhere surrounded by neon flashing lights:

EHRC submitted that the law treats sex as biological and binary and gender identity as social.

Note BIOLOGICAL and BINARY.

@nauticant

One joy of this case is that it's brought Gregor Murray and Pips Bunce to a whole new, and rather startled, audience.

I can actually hear the rumble of... is it thunder or a countrywide eyeball roll?

There’s a bit of me that would like this to be appealed all the way to the SC as it would create a binding precedent.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

There’s a bit of me that would like this to be appealed all the way to the SC as it would create a binding precedent.

Yup. The most grown up of the grown ups.

These closing remarks by BC are, imo, unarguable, are fact and are what the Law says:

Exceptions to s.9 of the GRA recognise the biological reality of sex, because in some cases it's important to recognise the perceptions of other people, e.g. rape victims.

Or in single-sex spaces, someone who will appear to women, other women, to have male anatomy. Women are entitled to decide who sees them naked, who touches them etc.

C doesn't deny people's rights under the GRA. She is happy to recognise them; endorses the principle that T people should not be discriminated against or harassed. But she doesn't accept that they must be treated in every situation the same as biological women.

That's on all fours with the current state of the law. And it's so even if it upsets people.

It doesn't need to be on all fours with the law to be protected. It's a protected belief that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married. It will upset some people, but it's protected.

If it were the test, people on the other side of the argument who say trans people should be allowed to access all single sex spaces would fall foul of it.

The last one is very pertinent.

I think Ann Sinnott could do with some gardening. I suspect her sustained scrutiny of the ECHR has been helpful in this case.

All of the above are points the GC posters in here have repeatedly made, nice to know we are on all fours with the Law.

@RedDogsBeg

This quote needs to be put on billboards everywhere surrounded by neon flashing lights:

EHRC submitted that the law treats sex as biological and binary and gender identity as social.

Note BIOLOGICAL and BINARY.

Yes yes yes!!!!

'That's on all fours' I've never heard that expression before.

I imagine the Judge will want to craft this one carefully.

I imagine the judge will want to lie quietly in a dark, soundless room with a stiff drink.

I am imagining all fours as being some kind of 'doggy style' reference.

@RedDogsBeg

This quote needs to be put on billboards everywhere surrounded by neon flashing lights:

EHRC submitted that the law treats sex as biological and binary and gender identity as social.

Note BIOLOGICAL and BINARY.

New t-shirt needs designing for this

About the judge, Justice Choudhury.

Is that Sir Akhlaq Ur-Rahman Choudhury, President of the Employment Appeal Tribunal? Or is there another Mr Justice Choudhury in the Employment Appeal Tribunal circuit?

Don't know if I'm allowed to do this, but there's a brilliant comment on the TImes article from someone called Tom Couva that I'd like to share here, just as a handy reminder:

Maya’s position is shared by virtually everyone.

A well funded ideology is trying - amazingly - to destroy the concept of biology. Its playbook has never been used before in liberal democracies:

Claim to be inclusive and progressive
Use stealth wherever possible
Attach your campaign to a genuinely popular one, like gay rights, to smuggle your agenda through
Use emotional blackmail at every turn
Misuse suicide risk routinely
Misrepresent the law with a straight face
Aggressively accuse anyone who challenges of hateful bigotry
Aggressively assert there is ‘no debate’
Threaten public meetings and gatherings
Threaten and organise boycotts against companies or publications
Try to get people sacked
Complain to the police
Train the police in your ideology
Try to socially ostracise anyone asking the mildest questions
Create an atmosphere of fear and intimidation
Get the law changed to dismantle women’s rights
Get opposing this agenda made a hate crime
Bully and manipulate organisations into adopting your ideology
Silence those whose interest you claim to be advancing who disagree with you
Make 90% of MPs unwilling or afraid to engage or speak on the issue
Smear any organisation which uses reason and evidence to challenge your agenda
Do all this and much more and claim to be a civil rights movement

The UK is the centre of the global resistance. But there is a big struggle ahead. All the main political parties are captured save, mostly, the Tories

I hope the Judge will take time to read through the evidence, to discount any abstract theoretical arguments and to focus on the facts.

@SeaShoreGalore

I am imagining all fours as being some kind of 'doggy style' reference.

That's the image that came to my mind when I first saw the phrase but I didn't want to lower the tone....