Maya Forstater's appeal skeleton

[Mollyollydolly]

Saw this on twitter and thought it deserved a thread to itself.

As Jason Braler (employment lawyer) says on twitter "It's more a thesis than a traditional skeleton, but it certainly drives home the points from every conceivable angle.
It may also be the only ever EAT skeleton to have 4 references to Orwell"

hiyamaya.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/forstater-eat-claimant-skeleton-argument-plus-low-res-pages-1-50.pdf

Doesn't she realise the GRA is a legal fiction and you can't actually change your biological sex?

She’s saying precisely the opposite: the GRA makes it real for all purposes, negating MF’s right to disagree.

Which it doesn’t.

@ArabellaScott

This is interesting, though, because it's directly and explicitly contradicting the 'nobody is saying biological sex isn't real' line we hear so often

Yep, that is interesting, because I thought that yesterday’s dispatch from the front was definitely a strict denial that anyone ever meant that, and that of course biological sex is real and foundational.

But today we’re back to “biological sex can be changed by legal means”.

Doubleplus goodthink!

feel sorry for JR. It's unlikely that she genuinely believes this crap (althugh I don't know her personally).

I have said many things in court that I personally disagree with. We're just gobs for hire.

JR seems oblivious to the law and the legal exceptions.

Tayler J wrote in his judgment "She positively believes that TW are men, and will say so whenever she wants."

Isn't the whole point that the judge was wrong to say this? How can what the previous judge said be an argument that it was correct?

He doesn't need to challenge them so much as repeat them, very slowly, with a question mark at the end.

Her belief is an existential threat to trans people?

~Existential?~

Understanding that men are men will cause some people to cease to exist?

Crikey

I have said many things in court that I personally disagree with. We're just gobs for hire.

True.

How do these people think babies are made?

Surrogates.

I have said many things in court that I personally disagree with. We're just gobs for hire.

Yes I can imagine.

@Sophoclesthefox

I thought we had put to bed the idea that the sincerity with which people hold a belief is an indication of the merit of that belief years ago.

You can sincerely believe in something that is quite, quite false, but you still can’t compel anyone else to believe the same thing.

which is Maya’s exact blinking point.

That you can believe it, and have it protected, and still do your job, all at the same time.

Yes, this bears repeating. Lots of people can't seem to grasp it.

I have to admit, using Pips Bunce as the point of the issue that you mustn't address isn't where I would have started, to be honest.

If this is the best legal argument they can find then I’m not too worried. Sometimes the cab rank rule is hard on barristers. You have to make a case for your client whatever you feel.

Surely if one follows JR's argument then a Dr on seeing a TM (with GRC) regarding ovarian cancer symptoms would be required to deny investigations for ovarian cancer because biology fixed at birth is 'outdated'

Obviously this wouldn't happen but am I reading the extension of her statement correctly?

JR still arguing the wrong case. Was she there yesterday? She isn’t addressing the question in front of the court.

I have to admit, using Pips Bunce as the point of the issue that you mustn't address isn't where I would have started, to be honest.

I was thinking the same thing.

YY, Datun.

Mmm

Quoting’Pip Bunce is a man in heels’ as an example of heinous slander is an odd choice

Half the week he is a man even in his own estimation, so surely that statement is fine to genderists and realists alike?

Surely if one follows JR's argument then a Dr on seeing a TM (with GRC) regarding ovarian cancer symptoms would be required to deny investigations for ovarian cancer because biology fixed at birth is 'outdated'

No, the TRA argument would be "all genders can have ovaries, it's completely pot luck which bits you get"

It is submitted that her belief (that TWAW is a literal delusion) is an existential threat to trans people

This is crazy stuff. It can't possibly win.

If I wanted to lose the argument, that’s where I’d start

How do these people think babies are made? Surrogates.

I wonder how on earth you'll be able to identify who would actually be successful in gestating a baby? Or is it just pot luck?

Dipping in quickly to say WTF about CDG’s barrister resorting to Simone de Beauvoir in her argument. Seriously. What the hell?

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

Mmm

Quoting’Pip Bunce is a man in heels’ as an example of heinous slander is an odd choice

Half the week he is a man even in his own estimation, so surely that statement is fine to genderists and realists alike?

YY

🤣