Maya Forstater's appeal skeleton

[Mollyollydolly]

Saw this on twitter and thought it deserved a thread to itself.

As Jason Braler (employment lawyer) says on twitter "It's more a thesis than a traditional skeleton, but it certainly drives home the points from every conceivable angle.
It may also be the only ever EAT skeleton to have 4 references to Orwell"

hiyamaya.files.wordpress.com/2021/04/forstater-eat-claimant-skeleton-argument-plus-low-res-pages-1-50.pdf

The author turns up on here sometimes

I wouldn't want them as my brief in a case I needed to win. And that's got nothing to do with their gender identity.

Forstater claims the right to knowingly cause pain

From the live tweets:

It is not disputed that trans people may be offended by expression of beliefs in the salience of sex. But this is not a competition to see who is most offended.

The role of the law is to ensure mutual respect from those of conflicting beliefs. It doesn't entail eradicating disagreement and contention. In a free society, citizens must tolerate even upsetting & unacceptable views, and they must do so in a workplace setting.

How about the pain caused to women by forced speech, loss of single sex spaces even the loss of the word woman.

Maya’s case was always good. How can it be unacceptable to believe biology but a protected characteristic if you believe in God. Either both are protected or neither.

Some people feel pain at the truth being stated though.

I feel pain when someone reminds me that my parents are dead
I feel pain when someone gasps at my hair (I have alopecia, so more like lack of hair)
I feel pain when I am reminded of health issues I have (literal and emotional)

These things are all true. I don’t wail and call the polis about it.

@NecessaryScene1

So the judge has suggested that a decision tomorrow is a possibility:

J: Adjourning until 10.30 tomorrow morning. "Whether or not we give a judgment on the day remains to be seen."

That doesn't sound good for Maya's opponents. That's basically "I think I've heard enough".

A lawyer on Twitter said:

I'm a lawyer of 25 years experience and I'd interpret what he said to mean "I've pretty much made up my mind on the basis of what I've heard, so unless the other side come up with something spectacular tomorrow, I'm finding for MF"

🤞

But what happens next if this judge finds that the previous one was completely wrong? Does Maya have to go to another tribunal, like a 'retrial', or will this be the end of it?

Now trending in politics #Istandwithmaya

Whoop

But what happens next if this judge finds that the previous one was completely wrong? Does Maya have to go to another tribunal, like a 'retrial', or will this be the end of it?

In principal there could be another appeal of this one, but if it was an immediate ruling, that might be out of the question.

Assuming this is ruled in MFs favour, then the next stage is the case to determine whether she was discriminated against for her protected belief.

What should be unthinkable is the prioritisation of adult male feelings/demands of identity validation over the welfare and Safeguarding of children.

You’ve constructed a false dichotomy. (Again).

I see, thanks NecessaryScene1 :)

Transgender Trend
"The right to identify & acknowledge a person's sex is critical for the protection and safeguarding of girls. Girls must be able to recognise a person as male for their own self-protection, to suppress those instincts out of fear of causing offence puts girls at risk."

More stages if needed. Can go as far as the Supreme Court, but if this is a slam dunk (forgive expression) then the respondent wouldn't take this forward, the higher the court the more weight the judgement carries.

@Shizuku

I assume if she wins, that people who work with her will be able to refer to her as "the transphobe" if they genuinely believe her to be one.

Of course. I doubt she or anyone else truly believes they have a legal right not to be insulted.

If that was the case we'd have no comedians left!

It seems that the longer this thread goes, the more the mask slips with some people on the thread. Not surprising but useful to see.

@Anovaneway

What should be unthinkable is the prioritisation of adult male feelings/demands of identity validation over the welfare and Safeguarding of children.

You’ve constructed a false dichotomy. (Again).

Please explain?

It's so funny what people "assume"! As if "transphobe" is one of the two sexes, and immutable, which is what the case is very specifically about. It's written down and everything! Quite a few times!

Please ignore the derailing.

It has been a fascinating thread. Very interested to hear that judgement may be adversely as tomorrow.

@CardinalLolzy

It's so funny what people "assume"! As if "transphobe" is one of the two sexes, and immutable, which is what the case is very specifically about. It's written down and everything! Quite a few times!

I thought it was about the freedom to state what you believe to be true. my bad.

As early as tomorrow!

Just a reminder that MN have asked us to report vile or goady posts rather than respond.

Mother of God, today was a good day. Now we're sucking diesel. Maya - what a woman.

@shizuku

You talk about respecting people’s identities.

If you meet someone for the first time and they clearly look like a man , deliberately have dressed and groomed as a male .

Then how are you supposed to know they don’t want to identify as he . By choice . And don’t want certain pronouns used, such as he or she ?

Why would that be disrespectful to not know the history or choices of that person and the fact they don’t want to use pronouns ?

Honestly this whole thread is confusing to me and all I see is criticisms , but no real solutions offered .

Genuine question as I am trying to read the information on here and your post I found confusing .