Andrew Marr questions Angela Rayner and Jo Swinson on SelfID and EA2010

[WhereYouLeftIt]

Wow, the BBC are on a roll! After yesterday's interview of Laura Piddock by Justin Webb on R4's Today programme, today on the Andrew Marr show he was interviewing Rayner, Swinson and Michael Gove on various electoral issues. His last question to Rayner and Swinson were on SelfID and the Equality Act.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000bqht/the-andrew-marr-show-24112019

Rayner's response is at 33.56, Swinson's at 52.58.

My post about this from the other thread:

Rayner unable to voice a single word in actual support of women. When pressed: "Yes we will keep some spaces" (very grudging) and then an immediate deflection to "WHAT ABOUT THE TRANS SUICIDES EH, EH, WHAT ABOUT THEM?"

And I realise this thread's about Labour but Jo Swinson even worse: wouldn't say a single word in support of spaces unlike Raynor's grudging one phrase. Immediate deflection to "WHAT ABOUT THE LESBIAN DV PERPS, EH, EH, WHAT ABOUT THEM?"

Angela - take note: a full-throated support of the manifesto compromise might have persuaded me to vote for you. Now, there's no chance at all. And I am one of thousands. Well done, love: tell women you don't give a flying fuck about them on the country's premier political interview TV show in the middle of a general election campaign. So yes, you can fuck right off. Along with your party.

Rayner is my local MP. I met her to discuss my concerns regarding self ID. Her response was as expected
makemorenoise.libsyn.com/suffragette-city-radio-extra-one

Dam those lesbians

What the fuck was that idiot liberal dem Swinson on about

2 women killed every week by the men that are meant to love them

And she rattles on like an idiot about lesbians

How many fucking times do these homophobic idiots have to have it spelt out for them?

Lesbians are women. Adult human females. Female, of the sex class that produces large, immobile gametes. They are women in exactly the same way heterosexual women like me are women. They commit crimes at the same rate as women. They behave like women. Because they are women.

XY trans people are not women. They are adult human males. Male, of the sex class that produces small, mobile gametes. They commit crimes at the same rate as other males. They behave like other males. Because they are male. Not women. Not at all. Not in any way.

Comparing homosexual women to males is homophobic. Stop it.

Swinson completely missing the point on refuges. (And apparently Mah too, didn't he comment about it sounding sensible?) It's not just about the partner of the abused woman trying to enter the refuge, it's about abused women needing recovery away from all males, however victimised themselves. How can you be so stupid as to acknowledge the need for women only refuges and not see that the same issues would be triggered by an obviously male transwoman? If it was just about keeping abusive spouses from pretending to be victims to gain access, there wouldn't be justification to have female only staff.

I might be very hungover today, but wasn't Swinson saying that they would need an impact assessment if an abusive husband used selfID to get access to same refuge as wife? Or did I misunderstand what she was saying?

I don't think Swinson was being homophobic, I think she thinks the only reason for women only refuges is to keep the abusive partner out. Hence her thinking going to a transwoman partner being the same situation as a female partner. She's just missed the point by a mile.

Anyway, Rayner completely dismissed women's concerns about sharing facilities with men, and Marr inept in tackling this subject (as also posted on another thread). Seems that this issue is to women voters what immigration is to Brexit voters. Ignore it at your peril. Until this morning I was resigned to voting Labour. I just can't agree with their bullshit on this.

I think Swinson was being homophobic - the whole removal of women's spaces and identity is based on homophobia and anti women rhetoric. Her problem is that some of the most extreme women haters / lesbophobic people reside in the Lib Dems and their narrative is the prominent one - anyone who challenges it is bullied out of existence..

Andrew Marr said JS’s reply was very clear... it was as clear as mud to me. And she said ‘cis’ How dare she.

Swinson als called women. Cis women

Idiot. Am a woman not a cis woman

Idiot

I only caught Rayner's interview and that was over a lot of noise so didn't really hear about it. When she spoke about protecting single sex exemptions (in amongst talking about how oppressed trans people were), all I could think was "Madigan".

The trouble is that Marr's inept and ignorant grasp of these issues still allows the BBC to claim that they are giving these issues an airing (after their years of censoring women's voices and actively promoting the anti women agenda).

I know this is mainly about Swinson and Rayner's responses - and deservedly so - but I'm curious as to why Marr didn't ask Michael Gove the same question.

So can’t vote Labour or Lib Dem now.
Now who do I vote for. Seriously considering spoiling my ballot.
NONE OF THE ABOVE.

Swinson can shove her 'cis' where the sun don't shine. She might identify as a walking sexist stereotype, neither I nor anyone I know in real life does. I have never met a 'cis' person.

Swinson as homophobic as all get out. Honestly shocked - although I why, I'm not sure - that she trotted out the lesbian DV perp trope.

@DJLippy That was so interesting! Thanks for posting the link. My MP is Angela Eagle and I reckon I'd get the same response with her.

Marr should have asked her to explain 'cis' because in my experience at least 50% of the audience would have been completely oblivious to its meaning and origin.
Agree with the previous poster, I was aghast when he thanked her for being 'very clear'.
BBC says it all.

Angela Rayner responded to the question by behaving as if Marr even asking it was disgustingly offensive and crass.

Just shitting answer it honestly Angela, you disingenuous coward.

My MP is Angela Eagle and I reckon I'd get the same response with her

She sold her soul to the men folk Hollow.

She really has, @Whatsnewpussyhat. It's all about the men.

I doubt Mr. Marr (or other prominent TV or radio political interviewers) are reading this site (unfortunately), but on the off-chance here is one simple question I'd love to see put to Jo Swinson:

"You have tweeted that 'trans women are women, trans men are men, and non-binary identities are valid'. You have also expressed support for gender self-identification. Consider then, a person who was born male, who has had no hormone or surgical treatment, and who announces that he identifies as a woman, is this person a woman and should this person be entitled to access services and spaces reserved for women?"

Now I know that the hormone and surgery stuff is a red herring. But I truly believe that the vast majority of the population are neither woke nor gender critical and we need to wake them up to what the Lib Dems and indeed Labour are proposing on this front. Most people would be horrified. Many people who haven't thought about the subject assume a transwoman to be a tortured soul who was born wrong and has had their genitals cut off.

Hang on.

Angela R said to DJ's mum that there was such a different feel on Question Time with a predominantly male audience! So, she was presumably assuming everyone's gender! I'm deeply shocked!

The trouble is that Marr's inept and ignorant grasp of these issues still allows the BBC to claim that they are giving these issues an airing

The trouble is that the BBC have had their fingers in their ears for so long, whilst at the same time publishing and broadcasting fluff the debate has gone on without them, so even their best interviewers/commentators are still far, far behind.

What I have learned from MN is that open discussion and exploring issues around it gives you a far deeper understanding of what is going on.