Andrew Marr questions Angela Rayner and Jo Swinson on SelfID and EA2010

[WhereYouLeftIt]

Wow, the BBC are on a roll! After yesterday's interview of Laura Piddock by Justin Webb on R4's Today programme, today on the Andrew Marr show he was interviewing Rayner, Swinson and Michael Gove on various electoral issues. His last question to Rayner and Swinson were on SelfID and the Equality Act.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000bqht/the-andrew-marr-show-24112019

Rayner's response is at 33.56, Swinson's at 52.58.

Angela Rayner responded to the question by behaving as if Marr even asking it was disgustingly offensive and crass.

Yes, she did, and Marr wasn't having any of it!

Angela Rayner's faux "offence" at the questioning, and her appeal to sympathy - "suicide!" "imagine it was your child!" - but for many women with concerns about single sex spaces/ medically transing children - it is about our child.

My DD has an 11yr old male child - who wears boy's uniform - in her changing room at school - when she and her friends questioned this, were told "he's s girl" Seriously?! This MTF child stares at the girls while they're changing.

If I were the BBC I might suddenly realise that there could be a Andrew Gilligan advised PM in No 10, coupled with the traditional Tory concern about BBC bias.

Time to take precautionary action.

I'm tempted to write on my paper "I'm not cis and I deserve protection as do my non-cis sisters". I believe al candidates have to see each spoilt paper so some of that might go in.

I had a realisation in the shower this morning that my local Lib Dem candidate is a full-on koolaid drinking wokester (self-declared via Twitter) and I’m going to have to hold my nose and vote Labour to reduce the risk of the Lib Dem numpty getting in.

Similar here. I was thinking of spoiling my ballot but the Lib Dems have a chance of getting in here. Their candidate is woke as woke so I'll be holding my nose and voting for the incumbent with the aim of keeping the Lib Dems out.

theflushedzebra. I am pretty sure that the situation in your daughters school is against the law. Please see SSAUK site for more information. i am hesitating because I’m not sure if the regulation covers changing rooms or is just toilet provision.

What happened to Mrs Marr? She was good. So was her dad.

Just Googled her. (Jackie Ashley) She is President of a Cambridge College. I knew her, not well IRL, and strangely my dad knew her dad, not well, IRL. Good and sensible woman.

@Floisme "I'm curious as to why Marr didn't ask Michael Gove the same question."

I wondered that too. For me, three possibilities:

1. He ran out of time skewering Gove on hospitals
2. Gove has never (to my knowledge) mentioned trans, and could probably play dumb on it (he may well know nothing) whereas Rayner and Swinson have talked about it before
3. Sexism - it's a 'woman's issue' so why ask a man.

3.

Why is no-one asking asking the same question of the Conservatives, who are the ones that stirred up the hornets’ nest with Maria Miller’s GRA proposals?

As far as I can see there is nothing in the Conservative manifesto about reforming the GRA.

Gove’s wife has written some good GC articles. Perhaps Marr felt it was not going to be fertile territory.

VinandViour I'm pretty sure it is too - it's a very new situation - and I'm still pondering how I deal with this. Won't say anymore - don't want to out myself/the school.

Suffice to say, I can't believe our girls are being groomed by various establishments to accept born males in their spaces.

I was thinking of spoiling my ballot but the Lib Dems have a chance of getting in here. Their candidate is woke as woke so I'll be holding my nose and voting for the incumbent with the aim of keeping the Lib Dems out.

Same here. I know our LD candidate very well and he's great, but I will not vote for a party whose leader uses the phrase 'cis women' when she is talking about, um, women as opposed to males with womanly gender identities. No way. I'm embarrassed to be a member.

I can't even be bothered to comment about Labour. What a shitshow!

I'm so grateful that the Monster Raving Loony Party are standing in my constituency, I can actually vote for soneone.

Only Cons, Labour, LibDem and Greens in my constituency. So I have the choice between voting for a hard Brexit or for the removal of my sex-based rights.

Even as a staunch remainer I'd vote Tory if I were in your situation. Hell, I'd even vote Brexit over Lab/Lib/Green.

Same here, GCAcademic. All I can think to do is spoil my paper. I really don't want to but there is no way in hell I am voting in favour of reforming the GRA, and there is no way in hell I am voting Tory. But even more, I am going to use my vote one way or another.

Maria Miller was always one of the more stupid girls. Academically OK but not a great thinker.

Done a transcript of the Jo Swinson bit:

------------
AM: Let me ask you, finally, on trans rights, as I was talking to Angela Raynor - At the moment there are at least two requirements before you can get the certificate for transitioning. One is a medical certificate for gender dysphoria, and the other is to show that you have lived for two years in the gender to which you want to be assigned. Will the Liberal Democrats remove those hurdles, if you like?

JS: Yes. Look, this is a hugely difficult issue for many people who are finding that they're being discriminated against, that they are finding themselves with significant mental health problems, they, um ... they really, really struggle with the way society responds to this issue, and particularly the way in which the media debate on trans issues becomes so vicious, so quickly. It is really important that everybody, no matter whether they are cis or trans, whether they are gay or straight or bi, whether they are men or women, everybody can be themselves, and live, and be free to be themselves without discrimination. And at the moment the hurdles that are there are ... I do not believe that they are justified, they're not a sensible way forward. Other countries have made this change already and it has worked well, and we should do that too.

AM: Under the Equality Act, at the moment there are certain so called safe spaces - women's refuges and prisons and so forth - which are able to turn away trans people. Will you change the Equality Act to stop that happening?

JS: There's not some kind of hierarchy of equalities. Everybody matters and you can't say that, you know, trans women or cis women, you know, that one group is more important than another, what all of those ...

AM: so, do you change the act? is my point.

JS: No, what all of those places have to do ... you know, if you're in a refuge and you have ...

AM: Yes, let's take the example of a women's refuge.

JS: Yeah, OK, so if you have a woman who comes to that refuge, who is being abused by her partner, her partner is a same sex partner, then clearly that refuge has to be making sure they're doing a risk assessment on those coming in, because you wouldn't want to have a situation where that partner who had been abusive was in the same refuge. So this isn't an issue about gender, this is an issue about managing that risk, and that has to be done with all of the people a refuge ...

AM: OK, that ...

JS: ... is accepting and trans women are ...

AM: ... that seems very sensible to me ...

JS: ... often at significant risk of violence and abuse within relationships.

AM: So, finally, do you think it needs ... the Equality Act needs to be changed therefore, or not?

JS: Well, I think the Gender Recognition Act needs to be changed. I think the Equality Act does a good job. We have different protected characteristics because every individual in this country, no matter who you are, deserves to have protection on all of those different fronts.

AM: Very clear. Jo Swinson, thanks very much for talking to us this morning.

Homophobia is even more obvious when you type it out!

Dear goddess. Jo Swinson, leader of a major UK political party, an explicit homophobe.

IF THE GRA IS CHANGED THEN THE EQUALITY ACT BECOMES MEANINGLESS

FOR FUCKS SAKE

I hate the use of “cis”.

More to the point, half the country won’t know what she is talking about.

There's not some kind of hierarchy of equalities. Everybody matters and you can't say that, you know, trans women or cis women, you know, that one group is more important than another

But that's exactly what you're doing, you !

And stop with the whataboutlesbians when you're talking about giving men access to women's refuges. Not a good look, Jo. If you want to make refuges mixed sex, just say so.

I think she's missed the point. She thinks women don't want trans women in refuges because the abusive male partner may claim to be trans to gain access. So the defence is well we need to assess newcomers to make sure no abusive ex partners come in whatever sex or gender. She's not saying lesbians are dangerous or accusing us of saying transwomen are dangerous in this case. She thinks she's talking about the abusive partner specifically.

Completely missing the point that many abused women need a respite from males of any sort, whether ex partner or not, whether ill intentioned or totally innocent and lovely, whether identifying as man, woman or unicorn.

She's missing the point because she's homobloodyphobic!