Athletics: China field a women’s relay team featuring two men

[Haworthia]

This was as predictable as the day is long. China are well known for their, er, intense pursuit of national success at the Olympics. What better way than to field two blokes but insist they’re women!

I mean, look at them.

On Twitter there were numerous people suggesting that they were possibly women who have taken massive doses of testosterone. Personally, I don’t think testosterone could ever give a natal woman such masculine faces.

They’re men.

twitter.com/savewomenssport/status/1167544600002748417?s=21

Yip, they’re men! Not good!

China has confirmed these athletes are female. Is there any claim to/possible investigation of them having DSDs to explain their male-bodied appearance?

(Please note I am not taking China's word for it. However this seems too overtly brazen even considering what else the Chinese have done in pursuit of sports victories.)

I fully expect that the next Olympics will feature a number of males competing in women's sports who failed (or would have failed) the qualifications in their own sex. This has, after all, been an option since the 2015 rule change did away with the requirement to medically transition.

Sports success is a path out of poverty for many across the world. If you've ever lived in abject poverty, there are far worse things an individual can do to than self-identify as a woman when doing so requires no medical interventions beyond suppressing testosterone (the effects of which actually are fully reversible).

This does not just happen in China. They previously hired all the East German coaches en masse, then when that was stopped, we had Ma's Army, the unknown female distance runners who were trained in secret, went to one major world chamionship, won gold and broke records, then disappeared off the face of the earth.

The Chinese are keen to make a mark at the Tokyo games. It's in their time zone and they are none too fond of the Japanese.

Apparently China has denied that these athletes are intersex. See the link I posted above, I think it was mentioned there.

Which is why the rules (a testosterone level of 6 or under IIRC) are bullshit

Yes!

It’s so blatant.

This is now exactly where feminists said it would be. Males in women’s sport and everyone on the back foot trying to hand wave it away or pretend we can’t trust what out eyes tell us.

I’ve had someone tell me that including male bodies in women’s sports is because it’s fair. When I asked if it was fair to the women who don’t get a place because there’s a man in it....tumbleweed. From a highly intelligent woman with two sporty daughters.

A woman you previously thought to be highly intelligent.

I am completely with Magdalen Berns' approach now "no mate, you're still a bloke" etcetc

I think Fu is the only woman there, her 'shorts' are different to the others, plain red where the others seem to have something navy under the red to hold their bits in but perhaps my eyes are deceiving me.

And yes, I agree with those that say this is the predictable and natural consequence of allowing men into women's sports. Once countries realise their women cannot win against these men, they have only two choices

• take a principled moral stance insisting on fairness and the rights of women and accept that they will lose or
• embrace the rule change to improve their chances of victory and if they're faster than others in doing so, maybe even secure a good few victories over erstwhile rivals (who may have chosen option 1) that they can celebrate as their nation's superiority over its competition

Over time I expect more and more countries to fall into the second camp. History abounds with stories of people acquiescing to unfair systems and doing whatever they can to thrive within a system they are powerless to change. There will be equivocation and appeasement and excuses that by having a man they'll raise their chances to win and get funding for the rest of the team/sport which they will claim benefits female sports. I can fully envision a scenario where this will be seen as the only way for female sports to survive. Or at least some of it.

I don’t care about sport. In fact, I actively dislike most sport.

I am still aware enough to realize that women succeeding at sport helps every woman. Sport gives women a venue to fight for equal rights and equal pay that is very visible. Every female athlete who dazzles the crowds with her strength and dedication, means men who will take all of us more seriously.

These men aren’t just taking away women’s sport. They are taking away everything that women’s sport can do for society.

China has confirmed female but as long as the testosterone is under they are technically female under current regulations. The disclosure of trans would be against their human rights if they wish for it to be remained confidential.

No, she absolutely is intelligent, but she’s been Stonewalled, sadly. She thinks trans people have struggled so much that it’s only fair to accommodate them. I find it boggling that she so readily extends the understanding to males, but not to the women they displace, who don’t necessarily boo-hoo about how difficult their sporting journeys may be. And she can’t explain why sad males with difficult lives justify the Selina Soules of this world missing out, and why that is a suitable recompense. Sigh.

The Chinese are keen to make a mark at the Tokyo games. It's in their time zone and they are none too fond of the Japanese.

No doubt they’re desperate to top the medal table in 2020. They haven’t done it since 2008. In 2012 and 2016 they came second and third respectively.

God this shit is so sinister because it’s so easy. China insist they’re female - not trans and not intersex. Just straight up ladies, despite their blokey faces. What are the IAAF going to do?

Awful though it is, bring it on. This will peaktrans the world.

And who can blame China? They want to win and someone set utterly stupid rules. All they are doing is (almost*) everything they can within those rules to win.

*They could have used four men, and will do eventually, if they can.

Thanks ThePurported, I missed that. Chinese authorities did indeed deny that they had DSDs.

From your link the photos show clearly that three of the four have Adam's apples and wear different shorts. The female-bodied runner is wearing high-legs, the other three what look like a bikini or boy-shorts style with navy blue pants underneath. (Which in itself proves nothing. Choice of running gear comes down to personal preference after all.)

But ....... but .......

Two of them aren't even trying to look female. When I pointed out to a very woke bloke friend of mine that a bloke with a beard and lumberjack shirt calling himself Manly Dave could still self id as female his reply was something like 'for god's sake, people can express their gender however they like, it's noone else's business'

But then, what are they doing, how are they trying to even qualify as trans if they don't even look female. At least the one on the end is trying!!

Highly, highly recommend watching the video to clear up any lingering doubts anyone might have. Liao speaks in it, in an entirely normal male voice.

You don’t even have to grow your hair or paint your nails any more. You can just show up entirely en homme, and if anyone dares question you, you can sic the witchfinder pursuivant on them. Fucking genius.

Farewell, women’s sports. I really enjoyed you, but we can’t have nice things any more.

Lots of ‘well, what about US, NZ, Oz? They started it.’ on that thread shows that many are - deliberately? - missing the point and assuming this is anti-Chinese sentiment rather than anti-men-in-women's-sport sentiment.

I’m very much resigned to hearing about a lot of men podiuming in women’s events at the Olympics next year. I say hearing about rather than seeing because I’m in the USA and the time zone difference means many events won’t be aired here live, broadcasts will be held back to peak viewing in the various time zones here.

When I pointed out to a very woke bloke friend of mine that a bloke with a beard and lumberjack shirt calling himself Manly Dave could still self id as female his reply was something like 'for god's sake, people can express their gender however they like, it's noone else's business'

If they're using their choice of 'gender' to compete in women's sport it is other people's business. Especially the women who have to compete against them.

Maybe seeing it with our own eyes will really clarify it.

I talk about this a lot. My pals often roll their eyes "don't get rabbitwoman started!!" And either tell me the story of how their lovely neighbour transitioned and his wife is now a lesbian, or shrug it off because they've never seen the negative consequences of the TRA agenda

It's not something we see every day. Just every now and again. But in the Olympics if we see man after man after man with medals in women's races, men who aren't even trying to look female or sound female, if some of our most high profile female sports hero's lose again and again, maybe that will be the wake up call for the world?

Farewell, women’s sports. I really enjoyed you, but we can’t have nice things any more.

Yup.

I will remember 2019. Attended a women's rugby match which set an all-time record for crowd size in which all 30 players on the field had XX chromosomes. Saw the Scottish women's team (11 XX chromosome holders on the pitch) win a match 8-0. Watched XX women win Wimbledon and the London marathon. Caught the tail end of women's cricket where (at international level at any rate) it was still all XX women.

2019 - the last year of women's sport. RIP.

(Still, even if the Americans do only show the highlights, at least they'll have an 800/1500m runner in the women's race whose PB aged 15 in both was better than Kelly Holmes... Bet they show that on TV, with much flag waving.)

...... and yes, I know that women come in all shapes and sizes and we all look different, and how is a woman supposed to look anyway? but if you are a man and not even trying to look female then you surely are not trans.

I would love to run in the Olympics. I am too fat, too unfit and too old to compete. But what if you take identity politics to the very limit and I DO identify as an Olympic runner and somehow get onto the track. Well, I am going to wear the gear, not a grease stained Primark tracksuit and high heels!!!! Otherwise, exactly HOW am I identifying as an Olympic runner!?

The difference between the US/New Zealand/Canada/UK is that google can usually confirm any doubts. There was always the worry that athletes would be groomed for this specific reason and certain countries could do this better than others. It’s happened before so it will happen again. Unfortunately it will also lead to a few women being wrongly accused. Women’s sport will be a case of “I cannot confirm of deny” if all the women are biological.

It is very easily (and relatively non-invasively) fixed. Cheek swab (less invasive, I would argue, than the urine samples under supervision which elite athletes have to routinely provide for drugs testing). Is there a Y chromosome? Yes? Back to men's sport. Let men's sport become more accepting of gender non-conforming athletes.

Identify as a transman but demonstrably XX? Fine - women's sport will welcome you, so long as you lay off the testosterone. Just as any other woman is expected to lay off the testosterone.

Thing is, it is very easy to take a stand if a sports organisation wants to.

The Women's Tennis Association rules state that biological males are welcome to apply to them two years after a gonadectomy.

So far, they have not been troubled.

The WTA is the organisation that has achieved prize money parity for women, and therefore as an organisation presumably feels that they have something to protect.

The majority of other sports authorities are male-dominated and have had decades of investing tiny fractions in the women's game compared to the men's game. They are very happy to chuck women under the bus. In the name of equality. Because that's what they've always done.

Like the England and Wales Cricket Board who know what a woman is when it comes to their gender pay gap. They know exactly who to pay a pittance to.

But then suddenly don't actually know what a woman is when it comes to the elite women's game.