Athletics: China field a women’s relay team featuring two men

[Haworthia]

This was as predictable as the day is long. China are well known for their, er, intense pursuit of national success at the Olympics. What better way than to field two blokes but insist they’re women!

I mean, look at them.

On Twitter there were numerous people suggesting that they were possibly women who have taken massive doses of testosterone. Personally, I don’t think testosterone could ever give a natal woman such masculine faces.

They’re men.

twitter.com/savewomenssport/status/1167544600002748417?s=21

Your disingenuity is very telling.

I’d say it’s more (also?) a paucity of argument - it’s a feature not a bug of the TRA position.

I'd say both are, pretty much equally.

Yip, I shared this with Chinese friends who have kids seriously into sports at national level - they thought they were men.

thought

knew

Just because men have 30 to 40 times the amount of circulating testosterone that women have doesn't mean that it's not a perfectly fair race.

I am conflicted between being raging about this and being pleased that the natural consequences of this ridiculous policy is becoming visible.

I wonder how many potentially amazing female athletes China lost as a consequence of their One Child Policy and how that played out in practice.

Maybe they no longer have enough of a pool of women to select talent from.

I think men have more muscly legs above the knees.

"I’d say it’s more (also?) a paucity of argument - it’s a feature not a bug of the TRA position."

Don't fully understand, you mean basically TRAs do not actually have thought-out, logical arguments? In this case they make an observation (didn't win...) and take that also as the argument (...ergo couldn't have an advantage), without thinking about it?

Oldchrone, you said *
Exactly. The rules say that men can compete in the female category if they have a 'female gender identity' and low testosterone (for a man). They don't have to convince anyone that they are women, or that they think they are women, or look in any way like women.*

Is that 100% factual? I want to use this in a discussion I'm having but wanted to check that this is actually factual.

Is that 100% factual?

It's what it says in this document for competing in the Olympics.

stillmed.olympic.org/Documents/Commissions_PDFfiles/Medical_commission/2015-11_ioc_consensus_meeting_on_sex_reassignment_and_hyperandrogenism-en.pdf

Thanks Oldchrone.

There are more people speaking out against transwomen in women’s sport.

I enjoy this YouTuber, she’s very opinionated, but rational ( and does great cosplay).

Bugger.

That is absolutely vile. Their entire idea of "fairness" is to let a tiny minority of men beat women. What the actual fuck.

"The goal is to create a pathway to include the transgender athlete, not create total equality." -> and with that exclude high school girls from scholarships that will be taken up by transgirls.

Exactly. That's why this battle is so hard to win.
It's not a simple case of pointing out the unfairness and getting sports governing bodies to realise their error, because they know exactly what they have done. They knew it would be unfair to women and girls, and they know that these athletes are male.
They see women's sports as the inferior category and think that it's perfectly logical to put men who don't want to compete as men in this category as long as they reduce their testosterone to just below the typical male range.
When Eric Vilain says that it's either this - 'female gender identity' + reduced testosterone - or everyone competing together just by gender identity, I read it as a threat to people who want to keep girls and women's sport female-only. The arrogance of these people is staggering.

THAT is the real transphobia: men casting “feminine” men out of maleness.

And it’s sexism: a male who wishes to “feminize” himself belongs with the “inferior Other.”

The demands of TW themselves are one flank of the fight, but the main front is against these transphobic, sexist, castration-anxiety ridden men in power.

Well put, Bicker.

It would be useful if transactivists insisted on one transman being included on the men's team for every transwoman included on the women's team.
It would be fair, of course the transmen could identify as qualifying so the fact they are slower, smaller and weaker than men shouldn't matter.
(Except if that happened, men's sport would be affected, nations might lose medals because a transman is competing against men, and that would never do, right?)
The Canadian cyclist says that results aren't the issue, it's about rights - well, this guarantees rights, right?
One transman for every transwoman. Fair's fair.

The Canadian cyclist says that results aren't the issue, it's about rights - well, this guarantees rights, right?

Good point.

Don't fully understand, you mean basically TRAs do not actually have thought-out, logical arguments? In this case they make an observation (didn't win...) and take that also as the argument (...ergo couldn't have an advantage), without thinking about it?

Exactly this. I’d say most of the TRA ‘arguments’ aren’t logical or thought out. It’s why we’ve ended up with coercive speech and mantras.

If they do not want the men on the women's teams to be so obvious they will need to change the skimpy uniforms the women are required to wear for something that hides that telltale muscle bulge between the hip and the waist on men.

One transman for every transwoman. Fair's fair.

Ooh. Can someone make it an equality issue and insist? Any sporty types here fancy a identifying as Olympic level athletes? It's not like you'd have to go to the trouble of growing a beard or anything.

Chinese (East Asian) women women often do have very masculine faces at low body fat percentages. Remember it is very, very difficult for a man to trans in China and is socially unacceptable and so I doubt these competitors are men - no amount of Olympic prestige would make up for the dishonour in terms of Chinese officials. India and South East Asian competitors, however, are are a different kettle of fish - in these countries trans women / men are officially recognised as a third / seperate sex and so when rules allow auditions for mens / women’s spots would be open for all.

That low body fat must really deepen the voice as well.

And the double set of running pants? Why’s that then?

And the fairly obvious penises?

Under communism (with a capital C) these states would move heaven and earth to win in international competition.