Are feminists getting played?

[Maniak]

It makes me sad that feminists are spending so much time banging on about bathrooms in a world that has women still working for no pay, old women still more likely to be poor, surrogacy, underfunded maternity care, and poor support for carers. And other stuff.

Yes, the trans thing is annoying, but have you noticed how it always fires up before major elections? It's like Afghanistan in the 80s when the US provided just enough weapons to keep the war going so Russia would use all it's energy and get weak.

I feel like feminism is getting distracted with the trans stuff. At most, it should take up 10 percent of our feminist attention. But I rarely see feminism these days that isn't all about trans. Seriously. Do you think we're getting played here? Is trans really such a big deal?

So the MN board are welcoming and inclusive, unless someone manages to come up with an unfortunate interpretation of your user name, you apologise and change it, upon which you'll be called stupid and accused ever forth of being a man and a pervert?

All because whilst you recognise that trans issues are important, you personally feel they are dominating the discussion too much and discouraging young women from engaging with feminism.

The issue here is the recognition that for women [females of any age] transgenderist ideology represents the biggest threat to the rights of women in over 100 years.

If you, who claims to be a woman, do not recognise that, a full explanation / analysis of why you take such a different position will be very welcome.

We look forward to being enlightened by you. Thanks.

because whilst you recognise that trans issues are important, you personally feel they are dominating the discussion too much and discouraging young women from engaging with feminism

Did you even read or acknowledge what happened to us Cohle

I dont want this minimised.

This didnt use to happen. Its happening to us now, and we became interested in feminism as a direct result. Refuges used to be for women only, there is an exponential increase in male bodies in Refuge, are you denying there should be an exponential increase in raising it as an issue.

The women in the Refuge shut the women down in refuge, and they were expected to accept it (like the abuse they just left). Those women also became more aware of feminism, and dealing with this as a womens issue.

I think, for example,[trans issues] affects women in power whereas the problems of women without any power are more glossed over.

Really? You genuinely don't see the risks for vulnerable and powerless women in losing sex based protections? Or are they the wrong kind of vulnerable women?

Refuges used to be for women only, there is an exponential increase in male bodies in Refuge, are you denying there should be an exponential increase in raising it as an issue.

Each and every one of those refuges across the UK originally came into existence since the 1970s via the money, sweat, tears and blood of women to create sanctuary spaces for women violated by men in the most horrendous ways.

Men are now demanding we hand over those spaces that women created to them.

Patriarchy in action! The abuse of women by men. Men whose view of women is learned to be, via patriarchy, that women's existence is to serve men's desires. [See also pornography and prostitution.]

Women are saying No!

@MNHQ umm I've no emails from you, I've not been rude or had any thing from you; so please explain. Lurkers will think we're odd!

I am very sorry for your experience username and that you feel it has been minimised here. I have no desire to cause offence in relation to what is obviously an issue very close to your heart.

GirlDownUnder they don’t always email if it’s only talk guidelines and not trans rules ( which you get a strike for ).

Girldowundr. You don’t get emails from hq when you get deleted. Poof they just vanish and that’s it. Gone for ever more to that lonely deserted place of deleted posts. Or not so lonely and deserted at weekends

I am very sorry for your experience username and that you feel it has been minimised here. I have no desire to cause offence in relation to what is obviously an issue very close to your heart.

So, @Cohle, are you going to give us all your analysis of why transgenderist ideology is not a threat to any of existing women's rights?

Oi oi Jessica and littl that's fair dos but I've not even. Is sexed or misgendered

If I have been a prick, please point it out

If there is no objective truth by which governments can be held accountable – be that a government of the right or the left, run by men or by women – then you are entering into the realms of totalitarianism which will crush all “rights” underfoot.

The division of the world into biologically discrete categories is perhaps the most basic truth there is.

If we are forced to say that men are women then we can be forced to comply with anything.

We can be forced to hand over our children to be “educated” to disregard the truth of their own eyes. Their minds will be open to be filled by whoever has the most power at any given point in time.

We will be forced to stand in silence in the high streets of our towns as men dressed in leather parade their fetishes before us – and be too afraid to say anything because we may be charged with a hate crime.

We will be forced to say that it is a basic human right to express our sexuality in any way that we want to – and women will be forced to provide services to people who demand that their every desire be facilitated in care homes, in waxing salons and beyond. The logical end point is that we will be silenced in the face of men (and some women) who wish to pursue their sexual interest in children.

The “authorities” that have the power to do this then have the power to do anything in any area of life.

When the human person is crushed like this to say that black is white and right is wrong, it doesn’t really matter who controls the food supply or how much plastic is in the ocean – everything that is worth saving in humanity will have long since disappeared.

And, by the way, the character in True Detective was R Cohle.

Diversion: fro anyone interested in the Manchester meeting with Make More Noise this evening here is the link to live tweets:

twitter.com/search?q=%23makemorenoise&src=typed_query&f=live

am very sorry for your [women and childrens'] experience username and that you [women and children] feel it has been [is] minimised [every] where [here, by you]. I have no desire to cause offence in relation to what is obviously an issue very close to [any woman's/childrens'] your heart^

I accept your...(apology)? Cohle

Its, yes, something we experienced, but my refuge was full of women like us, the same as all the refuges, its not only about me is it.

Its not only our personal experience which you have tried to tell everyone.

Clitherow
Extraordinarily powerful post by you at 18.20
It's all very true, once the massive lie that men can become women is pushed upon us then I think your scenario will come true.

It's the name of a character from True Detective

Whoops.

It's, yes, something we experienced, but my refuge was full of women like us, the same as all the refuges, it's not only about me is it?

Infuriatingly it seems we women are going to have to recreate our women only sanctuary spaces away from violating men all over again.

Maybe it will have to come to women who have space in their own homes who will need to give refuge to women and children violated by men?

Maybe we women cannot rely on any government to guarantee such spaces for women and children in the public domain because of the overtly violating behaviour of the patriarchy?

You may well be onto something there Jacky, something really powerful in protecting women, in a way that women can disappear. Many do know where refuges are and, in fact, the police search them for 'missing' women and children on behalf of lonely dumped perpetrators

If I have been a prick, please point it out

No idea! I was just explaining why you didn’t get an email

But I do think it's a threat, just not the only threat and I think women's rights and trans rights can co-exist more frequently than is sometimes given credit.

Please explain in what way can these conflicting rights exist other than separately?

I advocate for third and separate provision away for women and men, since so-called "transwomen" claim they are not men and "transmen claim they are not women.

It seems to me that separate third spaces for "transpeople" and those who label themselves "non-binary"[thereby establishing yet another binary between non-binary and binary!] is the way forward.

This way everyone can be accommodated.