Harry the Owl

[slycooperatemysocks]

Please can Harry be dropped from the Fair Cop campaign. Having an overt racist involved will just damage it. Thank you

How can you be RF without being GC?

Why is it always such a struggle to understand that we might agree on some issues and disagree on others? And that in some circumstances the something on which we agree unites us more than the something on which we disagree separates us?

And freedom of speech is worth nothing unless people are free to say things with which we disagree - that is the whole bloody point.

Are you going to link to the source so it can be checked, or just expect everyone to take the word of a random?

I don't see how "we" can drop Harry from the campaign he started.

Harry has been personally effected by this - he was one of the people interviewed by police for wrong-think. He was called transphobic by police. He's doing it because the police vastly overstepped the line - he's doing it for freedom of expression - not for "us."

I support Harry's campaign wholeheartedly, and I don't believe you're a RF or a regular MNetter - because if you were, you wouldn't come on MN telling the FWR users here what to do.

Mr Miller co-founded a campaign group to fight for freedom of speech after he is targeted by TRAs and you expect MN to close him down? Why? Why not contact faircop? Or ask Mr Miller directly if he will consider standing down. Coming via MN seems a rather indirect (and bizarrely pointless way) of trying to effect change.

Because Tea, RFs want to abolish gender.

Quite right OP

We should only worry about the right to freedom of expression for nice people

OP is RF not GC. I am GC not RF.

I assume Harry is also GC not RF.

Does OP really think everyone needs to agree with them? Or that they have the only version of the truth?

Unless, Perspicacia, you're a bit concerned about the combination of Harry and mumsnet and would quite like to see a divide...?

And what do gender critical feminists want to do about gender?

But if you abolish gender, what are you transitioning from and to? Without gender, trans ideology makes no sense. So if radical feminism is in part at least about the abolition of gender, then by definition a radical feminist has to be gender critical. You can't buy into the Mermaids jelly babies with pink brains like Barbie through to blue brains like GI Joe shite without thinking gender is a thing, rather than a socially constructed system of political oppression.

Zebra, you can believe what you want. I am not a TRA and these are legitimate concerns. The fact that so many of you refuse to believe that your golden boy could have done this says a lot. When women centre men it is not feminism.

I HAVE contacted FairCop.

Need.. men cannot be feminists, radical or otherwise.

Yes, what do they want to do about it? I want to abolish gender and I thought I was RF. Could not BE more confused.

"Unless, Perspicacia, you're a bit concerned about the combination of Harry and mumsnet and would quite like to see a divide...?"

I support the campaign. Do you not read? I believe that a racist like Harry will damage the success of it. You don't care. Okay.

Zebra, you can believe what you want.

Thank you, I will. I didn't say you were a TRA (although I wouldn't be surprised) - I said I didn't believe you were a RF.

Harry is currently tweeting from the House of Lords meeting on #transethics - which is far more worthwhile than telling the women on Mumsnet off.

And starting a campaign like Fair Cop is also far worth worthwhile than criticising the guy who started it for tweets he may or may not have made several years ago.

So OP if you say that if you'd used you real name we'd all listen... why not tell us your real name??

I am so tired of people I previously thought to be measured and reasonable landing upon an opinion and pronouncing that their interpretation - of someone else's words - is the only possible one, therefore we should immediately burn the heretic.

It's bizarre. I've had people do it, to me, in real time, whilst my actual words stand there utterly refuting every false claim they try to ascribe to me.

"You believe XYZ"

• Um, no I don't. Here, I believe the opposite actually.

"Yes you do, you believe XYZ. You're awful"

• Again, no, but let me reiterate once more, in writing, that I categorically don't believe XYZ, at all. Is that clearer?

"Yes, you believe XYZ"

Why do people do this? I don't understand this mentality at all.

It doesn't make any sense that someone wants to still support the campaign for free speech by telling people that the free speech Harry employed on twitter is wrong.

You can't discredit a person for damaging advocacy for free speech by criticising them on the basis of their free speech!!!!

It is you, OP, who is not advocating for free speech!!! Whilst maintaining that you support the campaign for it.

Get a grip

You think I am a TRA?

With no posting history and an odd OP? I think it's very possible.

Whether you are or not is irrelevant, what matters is whether the allegations are true.

Both of those screenshots are a bit odd - the first one with the one comment in bold and one not makes me think it's either out of context or edited.

I don't like the second one, whether he's racist or not- I think it's fine to criticise the burka, but more caution/nuance would be better.

But there is an easy solution, as pp says, just ask him- he's not shy with opinions.

MN has nothing to do with running Fair Cop, why post here with so little context?

As OP who is 'worried' the cause will be discredited, on the basis of them trawling back years to find a fucking tweet.

Give me strength.

Harry is not a golden boy, neither is he a hero. He is fighting for free speech. Something that you are, at this very second in time, in the process of trying to shut down.

I think the lack of logic is what offends me the most.

I didn't say you were a TRA. I said TRAs have been rummaging through Harry's social media, going back YEARs to find something, anything to try to discredit his campaign.

And you have fallen for it.

Need.. men cannot be feminists, radical or otherwise.

Exactly. Most women don’t claim to be feminist yet are GC. I don’t know enough about feminist theory to know whether men can be feminists. However most wont be, but will be GC.

Ergo there is a large proportion of the population that you have disagreement with.

Luckily most people support free speech, and hopefully enough will help fund Harry’s campaign. Even if it is to have the right to disagree with him on other issues.

Since when was everyone supposed to be a feminist. It would be like insisting that all MN posters were mums.

The more everyone keeps replying to this, the more seeds of distrust are sown.

Just grey rock it and let it sink.

This is a carbon copy of the threads we were inundated with when Posie Parker was aired in America.
"How can you support her? She spoke to Christians. Stop it"

There was also a lot of
"How can you support Jennifer James, she fell out with another feminist and supports Corbyn. Stop it"

This is all very familiar....