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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dominic Raab: We must end feminist bigotry

85 replies

abilockhart · 09/07/2018 16:31

"Men are getting a 'raw deal' despite tough equality legislation, Dominic Raab MP writes as he calls for an end to 'feminist bigotry'."

An article by the latest addition to the Conservative cabinet:

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/opinion/house-commons/96662/dominic-raab-we-must-end

OP posts:
FullyFledgedFemale · 11/07/2018 11:06

Well done to all of the bright sparks who conflated male victims with male perpetrators. People like you with your intelligent and considered judgements of what is fair should justifiably fill the corridors of power. Some obvious sexist told me that the number of women willing to work 60+ hour weeks was far smaller than the number of men and that women study and pursue subjects and careers which are likely to see them earn less and have more flexible working arrangements, meaning less women will end up at the top of the pile meritocratically. The bigot even tried to suggest that the distribution of male and female IQ was provably unequal with most of the people with extremely high scores and an innate capacity to excel in any given field being male. Obviously this is just scientific sexism, because we are all aware that science MUST always demonstrate the equity of sexes in all matters except those where women excel and men lag behind. He even tried to explain to me that the longest serving monarch and also prime minister of this patriarchal hell hole were female as was the current PM, implying strongly that women who climb to the top of the greasy pole are no more compassionate or empathetic than their male counterparts. In what I hope my sisters will agree was the correct feminist move, i kicked him square in the testicles and departed immediately. The nerve of someone trying to rationalize a non-feminist outlook! Can you imagine? Unfortunately I was arrested for battery. I was not punished to the same standards as a man would have been for committing the exact same crime, but rather received one third of the sentence because, as anyone with an ounce of sense knows, equality means that women are treated equally when we like it, preferentially when we demand it and like children when the consequences would be too harsh. As it should be in a decent and rational society. #progress #womensostrong

Pratchet · 11/07/2018 11:12

Tl:dr

FermatsTheorem · 11/07/2018 11:19

I think the TL:DR is "poster above pratchet's post is a trolly troll and thick as mince into the bargain."

Bowl's critique is good, though.

PersonWithAVulva · 11/07/2018 11:20

Ah the poor men. Being discriminatd against by misandrist feminists. Clearly feminists need to stfu and stop pointing out abusive male pattern behaviour, so as not to offend the males who are not abusive. OR the non-abusive mles could grow a brain and realise that when feminists speak of male violence and such, if they are not abusive themselves, they are not included in the abusive males section. Like, come on. NAMALT disclaimer, so as not to offend those who think I am a misandrist.

GardenGeek · 11/07/2018 14:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FullyFledgedFemale · 11/07/2018 14:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FermatsTheorem · 11/07/2018 14:38

Actually, no, Pratchet, you were right.

TL:DR without qualification is the only reponse.

Bore off, you bell-end.

PersonWithAVulva · 11/07/2018 14:53

Women initiate 75% of domestic violence and are 75% of unilateral batterers. Men just cause more damage. Interesting that lesbian relationships, where no men are present, have BY FAR the highest rates of violence. Look it all up, I'm not lying.

Sorry thats absolute bollocks. I believe the survey those stats came from included stuff such as 'nagging' as DV Hmm

How odd, that feminists focus on injustices towards female people. Of course feminists should focus on the things that happen to men too, and by men.

Bowlofbabelfish · 11/07/2018 15:09

The problem is that the people who purportedly want equality, feminists, seem to focus on women

Nope - feminism seeks liberation for women. And yes, it does focus on women. Of course it does.

women initiate 75% of DV

Ah, see when someone comes out with that one it’s fairly telling. I’ve heard this one before. By initiate, you mean ‘exist in the same space as a violent man.’ I’ve heard this stat trotted out by MRAs - what it means to them is that the woman has ‘nagged’ or similar and thus deserves it. In reality, 85% of DV is male on female. And yes, men do far more damage.

Men don’t commit 90% of crime

Actually for violent crime I think it’s 98%. Most women in prison are in for drugs offences and non violent crimes.

Men die on average earlier partly due to biology and partly due to society. There’s a fair amount of work done on the idea that a couples reproductive fitness is increased by what’s called ‘alloparenting.’ Its basically where ‘helpers in the nest’ help the reproducing pair. Loads done in Seychelles warblers if you fancy looking it up.
The helper benefits because their genetic material shares significant overlap with the pair being helped and it’s thought this could underlie altruism in humans. Anyway, grandmothers in particular seem to be effective helpers and again, there’s a fair body of work done that explains in evolutionary terms why extended female life span past reproductive years can benefit the offspring even after they have passed reproductive ability themselves.
Men have higher rates of death by suicide, risk taking behaviour, cardiovascular events (although women are almost level with them now so that’s possibly more environmental than innate.)

None of these reasons is matriarchal oppression of men. In fact being married increases men’s lifespans. possibly due to increased happiness and someone to nag them to go to the docs.

Better not nag too much though eh? With our eggshell skulls and all...

Society IS set up for men. Women are oppressed based on their biology - we are on average smaller, weaker and the reproductive class.

You’re making a class error in your logic. You can look at how classes intersect in the society you’re in. So for example white men are generally at the top of the tree. Now look at poverty and geography and you’ll see that white boys from poor estates in Glasgow don’t do great. That’s the intersection of poverty and that of maleness. It allows you to look at how factors combine to dosadvtahe or advantage people - however it says nothing about the fact that in general, men are at the top of the tree - and fairly unwilling to move the fuck over for women, ethnic minorities or anyone else.

ErrolTheDragon · 11/07/2018 15:33

Men just cause more damage.

After the DARVO bit, just?

I think someone needs to read and understand the rules of misogyny.(hint... they're not actually meant to be a 'how to')

https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/6kkeni/theerulesoffmisogyny/

titchy · 11/07/2018 15:49

In case no one has the time to read @fullyfledgedfemale's post in full, I'm just highlighting this one sentence which I hope tells you all you need to know:

Women initiate 75% of domestic violence

ballsballsballs · 11/07/2018 16:03

Quite, Titchy.

sillage · 11/07/2018 16:36

I made it about three sentences in before giving up.

Men need to learn to wipe their monumentally violent shit off their own asses and stop expecting mums to do it for them.

Procrastinator1 · 11/07/2018 23:29

Guardian article.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/11/dominic-raab-ideologue-rights-eu-Brexit
He really is utterly odious.

UpstartCrow · 11/07/2018 23:34

FullyFledgedFemale
Interesting that lesbian relationships, where no men are present, have BY FAR the highest rates of violence. Look it all up, I'm not lying.

No, but you aren't very good at understanding statistics.
In a study on domestic violence, participants who were victims of DV were asked their sex and orientation.
And so, not surprisingly, a high percentage of female lesbians reported being the victims of domestic violence.
People have leapt on the figure and extrapolated it to the general population, while ignoring the fact that the method of collecting the data created the result.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 11/07/2018 23:38

Women initiate 75% of domestic violence

I assume that means we deserve a smack in the mouth Hmm

Pratchet · 12/07/2018 00:18

Upstart : it has been inserted into wiki.

AornisHades · 12/07/2018 00:42

I wonder if our frequent flyer misogynist is on annual leave?

thebewilderness · 12/07/2018 03:20

Instead of refuting FFF's lies, damn lies, and fantasy scenarios, I will simply post these again.

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.
2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.
5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.
7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.
10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.
11th rule of misogyny: Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.
12th rule of misogyny: Women's ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.
13th rule of misogyny: Women are not oppressed! Rape and catcalling and objectification are all compliments, not oppression.
14th rule of misogyny: Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

DARVO: "He's not hurting you; you're hurting him by saying he's hurting you."

thebewilderness · 12/07/2018 03:23

Of all the lies men tell about men and women the one that chaps my hide the most is the one about crime.
Women do more time for lesser crimes than men do. Women even do time for not stopping men from committing crimes.
But all the stories say that women get away with it because they are women, so people believe the zombie lies that never die because men never stop telling them.

Snappity · 12/07/2018 05:02

Interesting that lesbian relationships, where no men are present, have BY FAR the highest rates of violence. Look it all up, I'm not lying.

I did look it up because I found it surprising. This is what I found ( en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_lesbian_relationships ) :-

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)'s 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey reported on the lifetime prevalence of rape, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner, focusing for the first time on victimization by sexual orientation. In their study, there was a victimization prevalence of 43.8 percent for lesbians, which made it the second most affected group after bisexual women (61.1 percent), ahead of bisexual men (37.3 percent), heterosexual women (35 percent), heterosexual men (29 percent) and homosexual men (26 percent).[8] 67.4% of lesbian women reported experiencing intimate partner violence only from female perpetrators.

What's more that puts a whole new perspective on safety in single sex spaces, doesn't it? And CDC is highly reputable so the findings are fairly reliable.

thebewilderness · 12/07/2018 05:11

And so, not surprisingly, a high percentage of female lesbians reported being the victims of domestic violence.
When I first read that I was shocked. Then I remembered the beatings my friends who were Lesbians got from their dads and brothers and it made sense.
There is of course this most recent murder of a lesbian couple by Dana Rivers. Not the first time a lesbian couple has been murdered for being a Lesbian couple.

Pratchet · 12/07/2018 06:19

The fact that wiki reports thus with enthusiasm is ... interesting and was noted elsewhere.

Bewilderedness, did you see that Upstart Crow explained the figures, and showed how the methodology of the study created the result.

Pratchet · 12/07/2018 06:20

the method of collecting the data created the result basically

Snappity · 12/07/2018 06:23

Bewilderedness, did you see that Upstart Crow explained the figures, and showed how the methodology of the study created the result.

I see no bias in the methodology. And CDC is an ultra-respectable source