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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Guess how I got suspended from the Labour Party?

811 replies

IAmDavidLewis · 22/05/2018 23:17

Well, one of the weirdest days in my life concluded with me receiving a letter informing me of my immediate suspension from the Labour Party. They believe I may have breached the rules by subverting the intention of All Women Shortlists, Women’s Officers or minimum quotas for women. Unfortunately, this does mean that my political ambitions are on hold for a while. I shall of course be continuing to self-identify as a woman every Wednesday, as that is my gender identity...

I have to say a huge thanks to @namechangeah for all her help, guidance and, more importantly, proof-reading! I wouldn’t have gotten to this point without it. I’d also like to thank everyone for their support today. I hope this has helped a bit.

And the Telegraph called me an “activist”! Achievement unlocked Grin

OP posts:
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Ereshkigal · 23/05/2018 23:07

Apart from that these legally female males have a slightly different package of legal rights to actual females who don't need a bit of paper. Most are the same, yes. But not all.

SupermatchGame · 23/05/2018 23:17

How do you know that what I did was a stunt? How are you so convinced I’m pretending? I didn’t say either of those things to James.

No you didn't. But James knew though didn't he? He know it was a stunt and that your gender identity wasn't really female because that was the whole point of his article!

there is a possibility (a slim possibility, granted) that I might at this very moment in time have been the CLP’s new Women’s Officer.

No there probably wasn't. And you're not.

it was not a stunt.

I think it was.

It was an opportunity for me to demonstrate to my CLP that self ID as a legal change of sex has implications that have not been thought through due to the toxic atmosphere surrounding this issue.

I agree, it hasn't been thought through enough, and you've highlighted that. As have many of us on here. Labour have clarified that genuine trans women with or without a GRC can stand on an AWS. If Self ID did come in then genuine trans women, with or without a GRC could still stand. Neither you, nor Bunce would actually fit any of those criteria either way.

If the members had still decided to vote for me after that, then so be it. It would be their democratic, informed choice.

As was the election of LM.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 23/05/2018 23:18

This is a completely fucking stupid situation.

Person A is a man who self-identifies as a woman and is permitted to become Women's Officer on the strength of their personal self-identification as a woman, despite being a man.

Person B is a man who self-identifies as a woman and is permitted to be included on an All Women Shortlist - briefly. Person B is then chucked out of their political party. The reasons are unclear to me.

Please, help me here! What is the difference? Confused

SupermatchGame · 23/05/2018 23:21

Show me where it says that when they are identified as women they aren't to be treated as women?

Treated as women as in hello Davina, lovely day today, isn't it? Yes.
Standing on an AWS no. Because they are not claiming to be actual women; and they are not claiming to be female.

SupermatchGame · 23/05/2018 23:22

The reasons are unclear to me.

Well why don't you contact the Labour party and ask? I'm sure they would explain it better than we could.

ToeToToe · 23/05/2018 23:23

and they are not claiming to be female.

No transwoman can do that.

Transwomen are not women, or female. They are transwomen.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 23/05/2018 23:24

It's just that you seem to know it all about everything, so I just thought I'd ask, seeing as you seem to know it all about everything!

Ereshkigal · 23/05/2018 23:24

This isn't about AWS. Legally they should be restricted to women and GRC bearing TIMs. Not self ID anything. Yes Labour are flouting that and crossing their fingers.

It's about self ID as a general concept. What about the gender fluid police officer? Are they allowed to body search women?

spontaneousgiventime · 23/05/2018 23:25

Round and round and round we go, where it stops no-one knows!

LangCleg · 23/05/2018 23:26

I think it was.

Who are you to gatekeep sister David?

Ereshkigal · 23/05/2018 23:26

As was the election of LM.

LM shouldn't be a Women's Officer any more than David. LM should not have been eligible.

SupermatchGame · 23/05/2018 23:27

But it does show pretty clearly men are prepared to be trans if it would be to their benefit.

There are some people who would be prepared to do anything if it would be to their benefit. And the law won't necessarily stop them.

SupermatchGame · 23/05/2018 23:28

Oh Lang... you're being sillllyyyy.

Ereshkigal · 23/05/2018 23:28

There are some people who would be prepared to do anything if it would be to their benefit. And the law won't necessarily stop them.

Let's get rid of laws! So much money could be saved and we can't stop crime anyway.

Mxyzptlk · 23/05/2018 23:29

SilveryMoon, I think there is no difference except that Person B spoke to the media about what he was doing, and some people in the Labour Party believed he was not genuine in his claim to be a woman on Wednesdays.
Had he simply applied and got on with canvassing votes, all would have been fine, imo.

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/05/2018 23:30

What is a genuine transwoman and how can anyone tell? Seriously, it must be possible to explain this.

SupermatchGame · 23/05/2018 23:31

No transwoman can do that.

Transwomen are not women, or female. They are transwomen.

'Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).'

Just one question. Are you a higher authority than the law?

Ereshkigal · 23/05/2018 23:31

No you didn't. But James knew though didn't he? He know it was a stunt and that your gender identity wasn't really female because that was the whole point of his article!

James is a thoughtful gender critical commentator who cares about this issue. Of course he would want to highlight bad policy and at least get people thinking about it.

ToeToToe · 23/05/2018 23:32

Surely if SMG can judge David's gender - and ignore his own self-determined, self identified gender - then surely we can judge or question Madigan's self identified gender.

My judgement tells me that Madigan is not a real transwoman - just faking it to bring the Labour Party into disrepute.

SMG - why is your judgment allowed, but not mine?

Mxyzptlk · 23/05/2018 23:33

Ps. Person B did not get included on an All Women Shortlist.
Person B was accepted to stand as Women's Officer in his Constituency Labour Party, just as Person A did.

ToeToToe · 23/05/2018 23:34

My personal judgement is that David is a genuine, authentic woman, on Wednesdays, and would be an excellent Labour official.

Who judges?

Self ID is self ID. Labour have made that clear.

LangCleg · 23/05/2018 23:35

Are you a higher authority than the law?

Or - shock, horror! - she could be a citizen in a representative democracy with opinions about current and proposed legislation. Perhaps she might like to discuss those opinions and - shock, horror again! - plan to partake in political campaigning or activism with a view to getting legislative changes.

We haven't had a Year Zero in the UK, you know.

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/05/2018 23:35

It's a legal fiction, for goodness sake. Even then, exceptions can be made under the equalities act, and aristocratic titles inherited by men only aren't inherited by trans men. So, not for all purposes.

Ereshkigal · 23/05/2018 23:36

Well said. SMG's hackneyed old routine needs a rest. It's just dull.

LightofaSilveryMoon · 23/05/2018 23:42

Mxyzptlk, thank you for the views you have given.

I still do not understand why some men are accepted as being valid for whatever Women's position it may be, anywhere; and yet, another man who attempts to do the same thing is punished!

There seems to be no coherent logic to this!