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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Spartacus believes in biology.

457 replies

HairyBallTheorem · 16/04/2018 21:03

Transwomen are biologically male. They are born biologically male and they remain biologically male.

I accept that it must be very hard to suffer from gender dysphoria. I wish transwomen well. I support their right not to be discriminated against in housing, employment and in life in general.

But biology matters. It is biology which means that women in Ireland and across South America and in many other parts of the world are the ones who get pregnant and are then forced to give birth against their will by political systems that deny them the right to abortion. It is biology which enables people in cultures which practice FGM to recognise which babies are female and thus decide which ones' genitals need slicing off with rusty razor blades. It is biology which dictates which foetuses are aborted simply for being female, which infants are allowed to die simply for being female. It is biology which means we are, on average, smaller and less physically strong than men and thus at higher risk of domestic violence up to and including murder (2 a week in this country, into the hundreds in Russia which has recently legalised domestic violence).

I am not prepared to lie about biology. Facts matter. The intersection of facts and political beliefs matters.

This is a hill on which I'm prepared to be banned from Mumsnet.

OP posts:
counterpoint · 16/04/2018 21:57

The trans movement is another form of mansplaining.

I won't be told that millions of years of biological evolution that have finely-tuned our species into male and female can be exterminated on the mere say-so of people with a personal or mental health issue.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 16/04/2018 21:58

Thus is Spartacus
twitter.com/DamienJStarfish/status/985873603035049984

busyboysmum · 16/04/2018 21:59

Blimey you pop out for a bit of yoga and come back and people are dying on hills....

I'm Spartacus.

I will never lie and say that men can be women.

I'd rather camp at the bottom of the hill and provide drinks and snacks though if that's ok.

Springnowplease · 16/04/2018 21:59

Still Spartacus.

TheCrowFromBelow · 16/04/2018 22:01

Ah ok I see.
Yes the denial of birth biology is a bit odd.
But I don’t think that obnoxiously talking over people and being entitled is just a male trait (Katie Hopkins anyone?)
I think that certain personality types come to the fore in these debates, and they will revel in the oxygen being given to them.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 16/04/2018 22:02

I am Spartacus. Science is real and biology matters.
Nobody has the right to decide for me that I must ignore its existence and force me to verbally deny it matters.

VioletWillow · 16/04/2018 22:03

Yup, I am Spartacus. I will die on that hill too. I have come out of lurkdom to stand for this, and banned too if necessary.
Twatter is already shadow-banning women for being gender critical, it will be a real shame if Mumsnet caves too. Being dignified is one thing, having to tell outright lies is another. A man is a man is a man. Because, Biology.

AngryAttackKittens · 16/04/2018 22:03

I'm Spartacus and I think I love Trousers.

“Don't mention where the hill is or it will be forced to cancel.”

I want to work with MNHQ on this, I really do, but not being allowed to call people male? Really? Biology isn't bigotry.

SolidarityGdansk · 16/04/2018 22:07

I am Spartacus.

Transwomen are transwomen and are biologically male.

Ritzsaltedcrackers · 16/04/2018 22:07

I agree, don't let the TRAs find out where the hill is!

They'll bombard it with phone calls using different voices demanding our transphobic dying on it be cancelled and leave it 1 star reviews on Facebook. Then demonstrate beside it wearing masks and banging pots and pans.

AngryAttackKittens · 16/04/2018 22:09

"This hill is crap. The tripadvisor reviews said it had a view. A view of what, the car park? 1/5, would not protest on again."

Muthafunker · 16/04/2018 22:10

I am spartacus. Let's hope it's a bloody big hill, it'll need to be to fit is all on!

Strigiformes · 16/04/2018 22:10

I am Spartacus. This is all getting ridiculous now.

OvaHere · 16/04/2018 22:10

This is a bit like Ricky Gervais's point about Bruce Jenner. Are we supposed to pretend he didn't exist, didn't win the male only decathlon or appeared on everyones cereal boxes?

I suppose this will earn a deletion for misgendering and dead naming.

dorade · 16/04/2018 22:11

This reply has been deleted

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Trenzalor · 16/04/2018 22:14

I am Spartacus.

corlan · 16/04/2018 22:14

I am Spartacus.

I got a 'B' in GCSE Biology (Second time round) and I know that you cannot change your biological sex.

I will not pretend otherwise.

RandyBudgie · 16/04/2018 22:14

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EmpressOfJurisfiction · 16/04/2018 22:17

I am Spartacus & biology matters.

ApplesinmyPocket · 16/04/2018 22:19

Men can never be women. I won't validate delusions with even kindly meant, complicit lies. Sex matters. Biology is real. As Spartacus as ever.

TinselAngel · 16/04/2018 22:25

It was Spartacus that brought me to Mumsnet and Spartacus I remain.

PangurBanB · 16/04/2018 22:26

I have been lurking for about a year, but it's time to speak up. I have a Ph.D. in biology and I am Spartacus. I will never agree that a man is a woman or a male a female. Feelings are not facts.

changeypants · 16/04/2018 22:28

I'm Spartacus. Happy to continue to use correct pronouns when it's appropriate to my relationship with that person. Would never want to hurt someone who's respectful towards me. This system works on trust though and cannot be compelled of me. I have the right to talk about sex whilst I am oppressed for my sexed body. Take away that right and you deny me the language to describe that oppression. We don't need a new word for this though, it's still just misogyny.

PencilsInSpace · 16/04/2018 22:28

Still spartacus.

Transwomen are male.

Sex is a protected characteristic.

Sex is why we are oppressed, gender is how.

Bowednotbroken · 16/04/2018 22:29

'Believing' in biology smacks of 'believing' in gravity - it just is there whether someone chooses to 'believe' in it or not. So yes, I'm Spartacus too - just like I was last time. Sex, not gender, is what is important and we need to be able to talk about sex - that is: women, and men! I believe in everyone's right to express their personalities however they wish - and do not wish harm (nor am I afraid) of people who wish to be identified with the opposite sex. What about a third pronoun as well as a third space? She / he / per (as in Marge Piercy's Woman on the Edge of Time)?

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