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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Spartacus believes in biology.

457 replies

HairyBallTheorem · 16/04/2018 21:03

Transwomen are biologically male. They are born biologically male and they remain biologically male.

I accept that it must be very hard to suffer from gender dysphoria. I wish transwomen well. I support their right not to be discriminated against in housing, employment and in life in general.

But biology matters. It is biology which means that women in Ireland and across South America and in many other parts of the world are the ones who get pregnant and are then forced to give birth against their will by political systems that deny them the right to abortion. It is biology which enables people in cultures which practice FGM to recognise which babies are female and thus decide which ones' genitals need slicing off with rusty razor blades. It is biology which dictates which foetuses are aborted simply for being female, which infants are allowed to die simply for being female. It is biology which means we are, on average, smaller and less physically strong than men and thus at higher risk of domestic violence up to and including murder (2 a week in this country, into the hundreds in Russia which has recently legalised domestic violence).

I am not prepared to lie about biology. Facts matter. The intersection of facts and political beliefs matters.

This is a hill on which I'm prepared to be banned from Mumsnet.

OP posts:
EmpressOfJurisfiction · 17/04/2018 17:23

Brilliant article. Thanks for sharing that, R0wantrees.

Flomper · 17/04/2018 17:35

ew I hate folkor, even worse, folks. its so twee. should be reserved for fairy folk of the forest only, along with all the fayness...

Love your user name beyoncisretinol, I always want to post chemical isomers in response ro being called cis too

Beyond11cisRetinol · 17/04/2018 17:45

Grin thanks flomper.
Yeah, it's a bit of a response to the frequent assumption "oh you think you aren't cis? You obviously don't know what it means, I shall enlighten you..." Angry

FlankerMum · 17/04/2018 19:41

I am Spartacus. I know that a man can never be or become a woman. Transwomen are men, male. Transmen are women, female.

I will also fight for the rights of men to express femininity and dress how they like, to love who they like and to have their own safe spaces when they need them.

But, hands off ‘woman’, ‘female’ and our sex based protections and safe spaces.

FlankerMum · 17/04/2018 19:42

Oh, and hands off our children!

MeganChips · 17/04/2018 19:49

I am Spartacus.

catgirl1976 · 17/04/2018 19:55

I'm Spartacus

I want trans people to live without discrimination. I'd use preferred pro nouns as a courtesy most of the time (not to goady TRAs who tell me to suck their dick or special snowflakes who want to be called Zir so everyone knows how unique and kweer they are)

However, that doesn't mean I think people can change sex. Biology matters. Gender is bullshit. ROGD is real and social contagion is dangerous. Children deserve to grow up without being told their is something wrong with their bodies and certainly without being mutilated or rendered infertile by drugs. Truth is not hate speech.

HopScotchy · 17/04/2018 20:46

Man/he/him refers to sex not 'gender'. If people do not want their sex to be referred to in general conversation (when sex matters it's not really possible to politely ignore it) they need to identify new words because woman/she/her/female/man/he/him/male are words relating to sex and they are not available for 'gender'. I am Spartacus too.

Haidees · 17/04/2018 21:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Haidees · 17/04/2018 21:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thornyhousewife · 17/04/2018 21:07

I am Spartacus.

My daughters, when old enough, will also be Spartacus.

Flamingowings · 17/04/2018 21:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DontBuyANewMumCashmere · 17/04/2018 21:20

I'm a bit late to this and a bit of a lurker but I am also Spartacus.

I don't believe a male can ever really become female. I think gender is stereotypical nonsense and sex is a biological fact.

If you chop off your bits you don't become a different thing.
If you chopped off all your limbs and ate some lettuce that wouldn't make you a slug.

(Peach Yoghurt put it so much better in her sofa/bike analogy...)

sanluca · 17/04/2018 21:28

I am Spartacus and so are my daughters. I will not have people tell my gender non conforming child she can't love Star Wars as it is for boys. Gender is stupid and trust me, biology matters.

And if transwomen don't believe it, I invite them for a smeartest.

spontaneousgiventime · 17/04/2018 21:33

Me too, I am Spartacus.

A Transwoman who has a vagina has it made from a penis. Our vagina's are not, they are made with the right materials to allow us to carry out our biological function. A transwoman still has a penis allbeit an inverted one.

Wtfdoipick · 17/04/2018 21:44

I am Spartacus. I know biology is real. I will no longer lie to be polite, to be a transwoman you have to be male. That is a fact not a slur.

WildGeece · 17/04/2018 21:55

I'm Spartacus.

First time poster, long term lurker.

Thanks Mumsnet.

birdbandit · 17/04/2018 22:16

I am Spartacus. I understand that gender is distinct from biological sex, that the understanding of acceptable gender norms are constantly at change, and differ right now depending on where you live.

That personality types are not the same thing as gender. That there is no innate thought or feeling or personality which define "woman" or "man". There is a problem of socialised norms, and it can be awful for someone who has been conditioned to believe that their thoughts and feelings are "wrong" for their sex. If altering your body to help you feel better works for you, then absolutely, go ahead. But don't imagine we can't break down the stereotypes which make you feel that your perfect body needs to be changed. And don't tell kids that they need to change their bodies.

But please, identity is a conversation. You can't very well identify as a non burglar if I catch you with your hand in the till. Your actions count. You can not impose your imagination of who you are, and threaten us if your deeds don't match what you say.

pamish · 17/04/2018 22:17

I'm Spartacus.

Transwomen are transwomen. If the Labour Party forces me to say what JC did on TV, that TW are women, I have no choice but to leave the Labour Party.

whitehandledkitchenknife · 17/04/2018 22:18

I am Spartacunt.

thebewilderness · 17/04/2018 22:19

This specious logical fallacy was from another thread but it needs addressed.
...me and the Labour party, Green party, Liberals, legal system. NHS. Most universities. Are we all in the wrong?

Yes they are wrong, just as they have been wrong many times before when they passed laws that have deleterious effects on the citizens. Going back to writing laws that exclude women from the public sphere is about as wrong as a law can be.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 17/04/2018 22:24

How long it it going to take until someone nabs that name? @TurningTables get in there fast

Poppyred85 · 17/04/2018 22:29

Biology matters. It determines every part of our existence. From before birth to our very last breath
I am Spartacus.

Jessjuice · 17/04/2018 22:31

I am Spartacus.
Biology is not subjective,, it is a definitive reality. I do not subscribe to genderism.

LadyMondegreen11 · 17/04/2018 22:35

I am Spartacus.

There is no human right to force others to see you as you see yourself. People should not be gratuitously cruel, but once you've defined honesty as cruelty you've lost your way. "Trans women" are males. "Women" are adult human females.

And men telling women what we're allowed to think and say and who we must accept into our private spaces and sports teams and single-sex activities, is patriarchy.

Not gonna stand for that.