DH believes women have equality and feminism is no longer needed

[Kirk1]

He also doesn't believe in "The Patriarchy" or that we have a problem with a rape culture.

We have recurring discussions, which always end up going round in the same stupid circles. I need new information and arguements to break the circle if(when) the conversation is resumed... So, who can help me?

Can we start with the Patriarchy question, because I always get bogged down with that one because he flat out refuses to acknowledge it unless I can give better examples than I can bring to mind at stupid-o-clock when we always appear to resume the discussion.

Well it's a bit circular, but the fact that he doesn't take your own views and experience as good enough evidence kind of does it for me....

Because after all, what would you know?

The first few pages of The Equality Illusion by Kat Banyard deal with this and you can read them free on Amazon via the 'search inside this book' thingy - might be worth a glance for some facts and figures

It's something of an intellectual exercise, and he does respect my opinions. However, simply opinion is not a good reason to change our mind on something (eg, it is my friend's opinion that God exists. That doesn't change my opinion on the matter) My examples when it gets late seem to boil down to "well it is" which isn't exactly ... helpful. Even I think they're lame!

Also, don't assume that he's actually sexist, DH likes to play devil's advocate, so if he finds an opinion I hold strongly then he will challenge it even if he is in complete agreement with it. I do the same to him. Some of our debates get epic! I'm not sure that involving MN might not be cheating but I'm getting fed up of the circle...

Thanks for the tip Tunip, that is exactly the sort of info I need :)

Hmm, maybe, but a man might perceive that he is disadvantaged by being male because he has to make all the concessions (in his head) doesn't mean males are actually lesser in the society.

My personal history isn't exactly useful since I can't describe a single adult incident that says inequality still exists. That may be more to do with my personal choices being rather "traditional" so I haven't been in a position to come up against any barriers IYSWIM.

This is the point at which DH points out that when he was teaching and doing teaching practice in the primary school, the women on his course were not told "don't cuddle the children, don't be alone with a pupil, don't be alone with a female collegue.." So he was being treated like a potential rapist simply because of his gender.

I am at a bit of a loss to know how anyone could even glance at the names of anyone with status and power and not get it.

All prime ministers, all MPs, all CEOs, all CFOs, all award winners, everyone mentioned in the history books, everyone mentioned on wikipedia....

Or try him on the Bechdel test. Once you start thinking in terms of the Bechdel test you can't get it out of your mind and then you are on to all novels, all prime time tv series, all plays, everything...

I also like to keep a rough count of films/tv shows in which women are the victims - ideally in a sexualised way. Women are routinely the object not the subject in any given fictionalised scenario.

sap.mit.edu/content/pdf/male_privilege.pdf

This might be a good place to start. Every time I read it I find myself nodding along like a Churchill dog!

Oh, JonSnowKnowsNothing, the last one on that list is sooo true (and annoying)

It's also based on the fact that men are more likely to sexually abuse children than women are.

However, he's also more likely to become a headteacher than any of those women on his course. If you look at the percentage of headteachers in the teaching profession, they are disproportionately likely to be male considering the number of males in the profession overall.

Why is that? Because men are better than women at teaching/ being headteachers? Because women "choose" to be lower paid because they prefer not to have as much money as men? Because they "choose" to take more responsibility for childcare and domestic work which takes up more of their energy and time, than men do? And how do men's choices link in with that? Or is it just that we still have systemic sexism which steers both genders towards what looks like choices if it's convenient for them to ignore systemic sexism?

Does your DH also believe there's no such thing as racism anymore btw?

Does your DH know that his chances of being raped or sexually assaulted are 1 in 4 only if he gets convicted of a crime and gets sent to prison, while your chances of being raped or sexually assaulted are 1 in 4 in your everyday life?

Does that sound very equal to him?

A good example is when I was at University they switched to exams being marked anonymously. An unexpected result was women's grades suddenly increased significantly and across the range of subjects, men's grades dropped. Every marker would argue until they were blue in the face that they had not been discriminating by gender but clearly most were.

This was at a top University within the last 10 years. I was reminded of it recently and am going to do a FOI request to the Uni for evidence as it's not the kind of thing that gets publicised.

The problem with your DH's attitude, OP, is that he is behaving like a climate change denier. All reasonable scientists now agree that climate change is real, and that it is almost certainly connected with human activity. Similarly, all reasonable social scientists, presented with the evidence about male and female access to educational opportunity, economic and political power, along with a host of other indicators, agree that worldwide, females are not equal to males.
However, there is always some idiot who says "Global warming? But it's freezing today!" and the equivalent idiot in the gender debate who says "Women's lib? But girls get better A-levels than boys!". I'm afraid your DH is playing the part of the second idiot. If he really is only doing this to be devil's advocate, he might want to rethink it, as he is actually only being devil's idiot.

Ask your dh why women still earn less. They generally do better in school and get better degrees but are paid less. Does he think they are not very good?

How often has he had his bum slapped in a public place?

When did anyone suggest his bad temper was because he was on his period.

Why does he think men take up so much room on public transport? Do they feel entitled to take up more space or do they just have huge balls.

You know what, I am beginning to hate men who act as devil's advocate about equality.

It's so fucking smug and entitled. And ivory-tower.

It's easy to play devil's advocate about rape, when you are never going to feel seriously under threat from rape (unless you get found guilty of a crime). It's easy to play the lofty rationalist when you aren't the one on the wrong end of the shit-stick.

I would question the motives of the sort of people who want to do this tbh.

Thanks, Buffy!
Completely agree, AskBasil. What would we think of the motives of a white spouse who kept asking their black/Asian spouse to prove that racism existed? We'd think it was pretty flipping weird.

Well, he would say that, wouldn't he ?